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September 10, 2009

Economists got it wrong, but why?

Economists definitely received some bad publicity this past week, most prominently in the New York Times, where Paul Krugman asked "How Did Economists Get It So Wrong?," a nonrhetorical question he goes on to answer this way:

"As I see it, the economics profession went astray because economists, as a group, mistook beauty, clad in impressive-looking mathematics, for truth… the central cause of the profession’s failure was the desire for an all-encompassing, intellectually elegant approach that also gave economists a chance to show off their mathematical prowess.

"Unfortunately, this romanticized and sanitized vision of the economy led most economists to ignore all the things that can go wrong. They turned a blind eye to the limitations of human rationality that often lead to bubbles and busts; to the problems of institutions that run amok; to the imperfections of markets—especially financial markets—that can cause the economy’s operating system to undergo sudden, unpredictable crashes; and to the dangers created when regulators don't believe in regulation."

For at least one part of the Krugman critique, I have some sympathy. On the occasion of a 2005 conference honoring the 25th anniversary of Chris Sims's pathbreaking article "Macroeconomics and Reality"—an article that was itself a critique of empirical practices then dominant in central banks—I had this to say about the dangers of groupthink and questions we might be missing as a consequence:

"We are close to falling dangerously in love with the basic New Keynesian framework, the sticky price aspects of it in particular. Here is a simple observation: In the [statistical models] that are identified in the usual ways, inflation wants to drop like a rock in response to a basic technology shock. Models that engineer significant price inertia don’t want to let that happen…

One final point. In my time at the Fed, I have come to appreciate that most of the really important policy choices have nothing to do with Taylor rules or the like. They have to do with those episodes of financial crisis in which Taylor-like rules are woefully inadequate. Think here October 1987, the period from summer 1997 through the end of 1998, and the aftermath of September 11, 2001."

Though Professor Krugman spends a lot of time attacking acolytes of the so-called "Chicago" school, the fact is that the New Keynesian framework (described here by Greg Mankiw) is the workhorse theory within policymaking circles. If economists were unable to see their way to the macroeconomic consequences of the unfolding crisis, criticism needs to start with that framework.

I think such criticism is warranted, but the thrall of the New Keynesian world view has little to do with how "beautiful" the model is or that it is built on a lot of "impressive-looking mathematics." Quite the opposite. As I said in my 2005 comments, "the dynamics of the policy briefing game seem to favor forecasting performance over theoretical integrity." The models that we use for policy analysis are constructed on the basis of what connects with the facts we see (or think we see) in the data. If these models fail to contemplate things that might happen, it is precisely because there is a bias toward frameworks that explain history.

Robert Lucas zeroed in on this point in his "defence of the dismal science":

"The Economist’s briefing [criticizing the foresight of mainstream economists] also cited as an example of macroeconomic failure the 'reassuring' simulations that Frederic Mishkin, then a governor of the Federal Reserve, presented in the summer of 2007. The charge is that the Fed’s FRB/US forecasting model failed to predict the events of September 2008. Yet the simulations were not presented as assurance that no crisis would occur, but as a forecast of what could be expected conditional on a crisis not occurring. Until the Lehman failure the recession was pretty typical of the modest downturns of the post-war period. There was a recession under way, led by the decline in housing construction. Mr Mishkin's forecast was a reasonable estimate of what would have followed if the housing decline had continued to be the only or the main factor involved in the economic downturn."

Some attempts have been made to exploit the information contained in data from the Great Depression. (If you have patience for technical analysis you can find an example here.) And there have been many attempts to jerry-rig existing models to capture the financial shocks and their aftermath, especially once we had seen what that sort of reality looks like. But, by and large, the last year has been a data point we haven’t seen before, and it is not so surprising that models designed to capture the average quarter in the economy’s life would not do so well when very unaverage events arise.

It is certainly clear that the dominant pre-2007 strain of New Keynesian models was inadequate to the task that would confront us post-2007. That this was the case was not unknown. If I may quote myself again:

"I have in the past agreed that it is useful to think of the policy choices [following financial market events like the stock market crash of 1987] as policy shocks. I would still argue that today. But it sure would be helpful if at least some of these events would appear as something more than completely random disturbances. In other words, it would be very useful to have usable measures of what we loosely call 'financial market fragility,' and more useful still to have a coherent [sophisticated] quantitative model that captures them."

The problem with that prescription was that the relative infrequency of such events would likely have required us to step outside of our existing data-driven policy models and apply more theory, not less.

So does all this lead to the conclusion that we ought to ditch the presumptions of rationality and (largely) efficient markets, as Professor Krugman suggests? I have my doubts. Even some of the examples in the Krugman article seem to rely on the power of those ideas. In describing the problem of the lower bound of zero on nominal federal funds rates, he says this:

"During a normal recession, the Fed responds by buying Treasury bills—short-term government debt—from banks. This drives interest rates on government debt down; investors seeking a higher rate of return move into other assets, driving other interest rates down as well; and normally these lower interest rates eventually lead to an economic bounceback…

"But zero, it turned out, isn’t low enough to end this recession. And the Fed can't push rates below zero, since at near-zero rates investors simply hoard cash rather than lending it out. So by late 2008, with interest rates basically at what macroeconomists call the 'zero lower bound' even as the recession continued to deepen, conventional monetary policy had lost all traction."

That whole story relies on a conventional monetary transmission mechanism, one that fundamentally plays off of efficient markets thinking.

In another passage from the New York Times article, we have this:

"I like to explain the essence of Keynesian economics with a true story that also serves as a parable, a small-scale version of the messes that can afflict entire economies. Consider the travails of the Capitol Hill Baby-Sitting Co-op.

"This co-op, whose problems were recounted in a 1977 article in The Journal of Money, Credit and Banking, was an association of about 150 young couples who agreed to help one another by baby-sitting for one another’s children when parents wanted a night out. To ensure that every couple did its fair share of baby-sitting, the co-op introduced a form of scrip: coupons made out of heavy pieces of paper, each entitling the bearer to one half-hour of sitting time…

"Unfortunately, it turned out that the co-op’s members, on average, wanted to hold a reserve of more than 20 coupons, perhaps, in case they should want to go out several times in a row. As a result, relatively few people wanted to spend their scrip and go out, while many wanted to baby-sit so they could add to their hoard. But since baby-sitting opportunities arise only when someone goes out for the night, this meant that baby-sitting jobs were hard to find, which made members of the co-op even more reluctant to go out, making baby-sitting jobs even scarcer…

"In short, the co-op fell into a recession."

That's a great example, but where is the irrationality? That tight monetary policy might cause a downturn in the economy may be absent from purely classical models, but it is dead center of the New Keynesian framework. The problem was that our mechanism for capturing monetary nonneutrality—essentially wage and price stickiness—was far too simplistic to capture the shocks that we were about to face (and that we arguably faced to lesser degrees during past financial market events).

In short, I accept the criticism that the dominant New Keynesian framework for forecasting and economic modeling needs some work (to say the least). I'm less convinced that we require a major paradigm shift. Despite suggestions to the contrary, I've yet to see the evidence that progress requires moving beyond the intellectual boundaries in which most economists already live.

By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed

September 10, 2009 in Business Cycles, Forecasts | Permalink

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Economists got it wrong because there's not one who understands the difference between a positive and a negative feedback loop.

Posted by: diemos | September 10, 2009 at 03:24 PM

Economists got it wrong because they only know how to model liquid markets. The fact that most markets are somewhat illiquid (that is, the decisions of participants frequently affect prices to varying degrees) means that the profession needs a major paradigm shift. The faults of modern economic models (including the New Keynesian models) were all described by Keynes in chapter 12 of the General Theory.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 10, 2009 at 08:57 PM

I called a bad recession 3 years ago ...it was pretty simple.

The Case-Shiller housing index was obviously a bubble and indicated to me that we had just experienced the largest misallocation of resources in the history of the world.

There were plenty of other signs early on ...inverted yeild curve, part time employment fell off a cliff and so on.

That so many economists didn't use some basic common sense is shameless. What happened was the equivalent of 99.9% of meteorologists telling everyone not to worry when Hurricane Katrina was 10 miles from landfall.

Anyway, I have an Economics degree, but work in the software field. I read econ blogs as a hobby and I predicted far better than the "professionals."

The scariest part is that now everyone who predicted it wouldn't happen is now saying it's over. They have kicked the can down the street with the stimulus and the bailouts, but we still don't have a clue what any big bank is worth or what is on the Fed/Treasury balance sheets.

I think there is still alot more pain ahead ...hope I'm wrong this time.

Posted by: Jim Hancock | September 11, 2009 at 02:35 AM

Economists got it wrong because they think in Gold Standard. They do not understand the causality in the flow identity

S - I = G + NX - T

Economists think that this equation implies Government spending doesn't change S and I goes down. It is exactly the opposite. S goes up with no direct on I.

Roughly, the correct logic is Government spending increases deposits and bank reserves simultaneously. Taxes do the opposite. Bond sale just reduces bank reserves. Adding up, deficits increase private sector savings.

Because the right hand side of the equation written above was negative for a long time now, (the stock of) private sector savings kept going down.

Such a thing was already known to Wynne Godley - the absolute gold medalist for the prediction of the crisis. http://www.levy.org/pubs/sevenproc.pdf

Posted by: Rams | September 11, 2009 at 04:49 AM

Modern macroeconomic models in the DSGE mould are all offshoots of the Arrow-Debreu model. There is no need for money in an Arrow-Debreu world and so they will never ever be useful for understanding a monetary-based economy. So I disagree with David, a paradigm shift is required. Robert Clower has expressed these ideas far more eloquently and powerfully in his address to the Southern Econonomic Association in 1993.

Posted by: PE | September 11, 2009 at 08:26 AM

You are absolutely correct about the Taylor rule being the workhorse during normal times. Monetary policy is the tool of choice for micromanaging and making incremental adjustments to the economy.

The bigger problems and economic crises are NOT adequately addressed by monetary policy. Those who advocate ONLY the use of monetary policy are trying to fight the economic battles with most of the tools locked in the tool kit. Monetary policy loses traction as it approaches the zero bound. Monetary policy also loses traction as interest rates approach double digits. Monetary policy is too broad in its effects to target single sectors that are out of whack and cannot operate outside the normal bounds without creating unwanted distortions.

The largest risks of inflation are commodity inflation or shortages (oil shocks, housing bubbles, tech stock bubbles, etc.). Monetary policy is impotent for addressing these problems. Attempts to use monetary policy as a corrective cannot work because any policy will leave a negative impact on multiple sectors of the economy. Commodity inflation problems are narrow sector problems that are best addressed by regulations that can narrowly target the problem sector.

Oil shock- Carter fixed that with regulations requiring energy efficiency. Efficiency standards worked very well until efficiency standards were relaxed. Implementing new tougher standards and promoting alternatives going forward will prevent future oil shocks. Housing bubble: Ideological opposition to enforcing lending standards and sufficient collateral allowed the bubble to develop. Tech stocks, inadequate enforcement by SEC and inadequate transparency requirements. All of these problems could have and should have been addressed. However, we got the sorry excuse that nothing could be done. Something could have been done, but it meant admitting that Monetary-Policy-Only ideology is WRONG and that better use of targeted regulatory policy is necessary. The anti-regulation crowd is ignoring the fact that all economies operate under a set of rules and no set of rules is ever perfect. Rules need to be changed and ENFORCED to keep the "game" clean, promote transparency and fairness. Those who are trying to make excessive profits by gaming the system will always work to undermine fairness and transparency in the system because transparency and fairness are the enemies of gaming the system).

The battles prior to 1980 included wage-price spirals. Because of globalization, the US labor market is no longer capable of creating wage-price spirals. The old models that focus narrowly on national labor are inadequate for a global labor market. Commodity inflation and bubbles have replaced wage-price spirals as the enemy of stability. This needs to be acknowledged and the system adjusted to deal with current threats. We need to replace the old school anti-regulation crowd with new blood that understands how to create and implement good regulations.

Posted by: bakho | September 11, 2009 at 08:40 AM


Let's face it - economists rarely get anything right so it's hardly surprising that they failed to predict the financial crisis.

The underlying problem is that economies are wayyyy too complex to model effectively and truly understand. They cannot be predicted over any significant period of time any more than stock prices or the weather. Of course you won't find an economist who will actually admit that because their living depends on maintaining the fallacy that they know what's going on.

And so we must resign ourselves to a continual series of excuses - "We failed because we didn't take *this* factor into account. If only our models had fully offset *that* factor with *this*...". Blah, blah, blah ad infinitum. Truly a dismal "science", but one that will always be there due to the human propensity to try and see patterns and order where they don't exist.

Posted by: John Smith | September 11, 2009 at 09:30 AM

David,

Your archives only go back to December 2008. If you would be kind enough to post your pre-Fed writings, there would be much ground to explore on the question of how economists got it wrong.

Not to be over-critical, but you are quoting yourself favorably here. I think that misses the vast complacency that you exhibited in the year or two leading up to the crisis.

Posted by: David Pearson | September 11, 2009 at 09:30 AM

OK, we all need to step back and remember that, when asking why the perspective of mainstream economics failed to do something we want it to do, we need to examine our own perspective, as well.

I have admired the work our host does since well before his arrival at the Fed. However, in this case, we have him saying "Look, the concerns outlined in a paper I wrote before this all happened got it right." Yes, and what a strong pull such success could have on one's own thinking. Strong enough,perhaps, that one might miss points others are trying to make. I, who have no such successful paper to attract my thoughts, saw Krugman's essay as largely a critique of our regulatory failure, rather than our central banking failure. If I read Krugman rightly, then saying that the Fed depends heavily on the New Keynesian model does not address what Krugman said. If you look at the effort to kill off regulatory oversight over the past decades, much of it does seem to rely on the excuse that market discipline will take care of limiting risk. Greenspan, who dominated policy making (at least in an advisory capacity) for a very long time, certainly took the "markets get it right" view, even if he was a New Keynesian when making monetary policy, and even if he stopped being a New Keynesian and became an Ad Hocian whenever disaster struck.

It strikes me that both the fresh-water/salt-water issue and the failings of New Keynesian thinking to account for liquidity and solvency problems need to be addressed. Room for both, because there are consequential failings associated with both.

Not that Anonymous was addressing Krugman, but Krugman did point out the failure of classical models to account for liquidity, and pointed out that other economic thinkers have taken into account the impact of capital depletion on the behavior or arbitraguers.

We should also avoid thinking along the lines of "Economists got it wrong because..." Economics is not monolithic, which is more or less the point of the exchange here and of Krugman's article. I also think there is good evidence that the biggest financial failure and recession since the Great Depression was not due to any one thing - not failure to understand the flow represented in the savings and investment equation, not failure to regulate, not failure to understand that risk doesn't go away when we ship it off to somebody else.

We did many things wrong. Each of us is likely to focus on one or two things, and that is to the good, within limits. Division of intellectual labor is likely to help us understand the individual facets of the crisis. What we need to avoid is the claim that our particular part of the puzzle was THE cause. It was THEM causes, not THE.

Posted by: kharris | September 11, 2009 at 11:57 AM

Blaming NeoKeynesianism without mentioning what caused NKians to rise to the fore--the pretense that the GUT of Economics had to be a Macro that conforms to the delusional Neoclassical principles*--is being careful to tell only half of the story. We could be nice and presume that is because you don't want to prove Krugman correct, but I'll decline that.

The pretense that group behavior is exactly identical to summing individual behaviors by the "freshwater" schools gave us the crime of NeoKeynesianism.

*The traditional wisecrack that the use of Neo- before an established branch of economics should be taken to indicate that the philosophy is the opposite of the original is noted for the record.

Posted by: Ken Houghton | September 11, 2009 at 12:23 PM

Is it a coincidence our financial system imploaded within 10 years of Glass-Steagall's repeal. The only reasonable explanation for why so few Economists questioned the wisdom of financial deregulation without calling for a mega-overseer (just in case) is our Economists fell prey to the same short-sighted self-interest that afflicted so many others in our "free market" system.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html

Posted by: bailey | September 11, 2009 at 12:28 PM

Ha, maybe we should add a "Best when used by" date on our money. Coors turns blue now when cold- maybe we could turn Hamilton red when hot?

Posted by: FormerSSresident | September 11, 2009 at 12:45 PM

Remember all the banksters and Wall Streeters who have prospered despite the crisis and whether or not they were trained economists does not obviate the fact that they knowingly gamed the system to their benefit only.

Posted by: ECON | September 11, 2009 at 01:44 PM

appreciate your post Prof Altig, and also appreciate John Cochrane's defense of economics in his recent publication.

It is impossible to analyze the financial disaster from purely an economic point of view. To do so regardless of whatever school you subscribe to will give you a myopic vision.

Certainly there should be much to say about how our banking industry is structured, what roles it should play, and how it's regulated. My fear here is that the largest most politically well connected participants will get to decide the rules of the game.

There are many questions that should be asked like, "Should Investment banks be allowed to trade for their own prop account and act as a broker, and as a financier?" "Should investment banks that proprietary trade be able to use the public market to raise capital?" "Should internalization of order flow be allowed to happen, or is it better for all orders to go through a centralized transparent marketplace?"

How about the agencies that graded the debt? How about the distortions to the market place caused by externalities due to government intervention, or the creation of a willing and non-transparent OTC marketplace?

This is much larger than the jaded lens Krugman views the world through.

Posted by: Jeff | September 11, 2009 at 02:32 PM

David Altig's remarks here, particularly his conclusion, "I've yet to see the evidence that progress requires moving beyond the intellectual boundaries in which most economists already live." reminded me of a WSJ debate about job-market "slack" Max Sawicky and I had with David back in August 2005.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112419322049714334,00.html

Unemployment was 5% and David was inclined to view continued low labor force participation rates as more a result of demographic trends and informed choice than of policy failure. Speaking of demographic trends, I had a look just now at the time series of the employment to population ratio for 16-24 year olds and I think that picture tells a story it would be very, very foolish to overlook.

Since the comments here don't accept graphic files, I'll have to invite readers to my EconoSpeak post at:

http://econospeak.blogspot.com/2009/09/job-market-slack-as-leading-indicator.html

It seems to me that the youth employment to population ratio has been signaling something or other for the last 20 to 25 years. If it isn't signaling policy failure or paradigm exhaustion, then I'd like to know what it is signaling.

Posted by: Sandwichman | September 11, 2009 at 07:07 PM

"Economists got it wrong because they think in Gold Standard. They do not understand the causality in the flow identity

S - I = G + NX - T

Economists think that this equation implies Government spending doesn't change S and I goes down. It is exactly the opposite. S goes up with no direct on I.

Roughly, the correct logic is Government spending increases deposits and bank reserves simultaneously. Taxes do the opposite. Bond sale just reduces bank reserves. Adding up, deficits increase private sector savings.

Because the right hand side of the equation written above was negative for a long time now, (the stock of) private sector savings kept going down.

Such a thing was already known to Wynne Godley - the absolute gold medalist for the prediction of the crisis. "

This is perhaps the most incoherent thing ever written. Try making sense.

Posted by: Jimmy Jabbadoo | September 12, 2009 at 12:41 AM

Guys ...it was easy ...we spent $4-5 trillion on houses we didn't need. Why do we need a complicated economic model to figure out this is bad??

If all your income is allocate to bills and you suddenly discover your spouse put 4 months of your annual salary on credit cards ...it is gonna get ugly!!

Why is this so hard for people to wrap their head around? The potential train wreck was obvious, but people ignored the signs because it is uncomfortable to go against the herd.

Posted by: Jim Hancock | September 12, 2009 at 02:27 AM

The New Keynesian framework is simply the New Classical/RBC framework with frictions thrown in so that the models can work better with existing data. The Classical foundations are there and obvious, and it is hard for anyone to claim that removing the frictions would make for models that would have worked better in crisis situations. Yes we need more theory, but we don't need more Classical theory. That stuff doesn't work in crisis situations, period.

It is also incredible to see Krugman's account of a liquidity trap situation get described as a "conventional money transmission mechanism" that fundamentally plays off "efficient markets" thinking.

Posted by: Jason | September 12, 2009 at 04:38 AM

Let's assume Dave A. is correct in summing: "I've yet to see the evidence that progress requires moving beyond the intellectual boundaries in which most economists already live."
What now? My question is: Why should John Q. Public take seriously any Economist who is not arguing for our need to correlate our economic indicators & measuring methodology to correlate to a population sampling (any size)?
For me it's simple, the FED has the clout. It alone sets the framework for Macroeconomic argument. For evidence listen to the jokes at FED analyst meetings. EVERYONE knows the extent & seriousness of the problem, yet NO ONE speak to it.
My advice to PK, BDL, DA & way too many of their peers is even simpler: Get out of the box & speak to the overarching problems of your chosen profession or sit back & enjoy the life it affords you.

Posted by: bailey | September 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Puuhlease, you mean the "media experts" got it wrong. Those media experts are being confused with actual economists (Michael Hudson, Paul Craig Roberts, James Galbraith, et al.) who predicted correctly.

The system was gamed and the countervailing powers (regulations from the New Deal) were gutted. Keynes warned (as did John Kenneth Galbraith) as to what would occur without the proper countervailing factors in place.

Regulation Q (anti-usury) needs to be resurrected. Glass-Steagall needs to be resurrected. Proper interviewing, vetting and background checks of those working at SEC needs to be resurrected (and please, no more Blackwater or Kroll (now Veritas Capital) nor USIS clownish background verifications).

Posted by: sgt_doom | September 12, 2009 at 01:33 PM

Jimmy (Jabbadoo),

I have made sense of it! Deficits increase private sector savings - rather than decreasing it. Its an accounting identity - $-for-$, ex-ante and ex-post.

Till the time Economists keep making this mistake of not accepting this identity, they will always get stuff wrong :)

Posted by: Rams | September 13, 2009 at 05:54 AM

Why should economists get in right? In both academia and media, there is much more benefit to being wrong with everybody else than in being right by yourself. Only the handful that are not dependent on other's opinions can afford to be right.

Posted by: Ed | September 13, 2009 at 03:20 PM

Comments do not allow a full-scale debate on this issue. I can not help referring to own piece presenting a complimentary agenda for economic profession. Briefly, we should scrutinize basic measurements, which are generally not compatible over time as all statistic agencies urge researchers. To begin with, we have to develop a consistent definition(s) to macroeconomic variables and re-estimate past readings. Just a simple example, the definition of unemployment has multiple revisions last 20 years ans still has many versions.

The paper is - Does economics need a scientific revolution? http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/14476/

This is a reaction to the paper "Economics need a scientific revolution" by J.-P. Bouchaud in Nature http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7217/full/4551181a.html

Posted by: Ivan Kitov | September 14, 2009 at 03:04 AM

Economists got it wrong because it did not matter to them if they were wrong. Their jobs being tied to much different things then being right. Many non-economists called it very well.

Posted by: Simon | September 14, 2009 at 04:23 AM

In a sense, we are all customers of economic theory because it ifluences in one way or another decisions made by economic and financial authorities. As the customers we should ask the economic profession to formulate a new research plan. This plan has to define clear (for general public and experts in various fields) ideas and tools which are necessary to answer the question why the theory has failed to describe 2007-2010, and when it expects a new unpredictable change likely to happen.
Meanwhile, it would be helpful for economists to regain public trust. This current discussion on the difference between various (failed) approaches does not look like helpful. If they follow the route of the negation of the presence of educated audience waiting for reasonable answers, they will completely detach themselves from the scientific community and general public as well.

Posted by: Ivan Kitov | September 14, 2009 at 08:51 AM

Got it wrong? Sure did.
And what are they doing about it? They are saying it was the 'other' economists who got it wrong.

Do you know of any prominent economist who has changed anything in response to being wrong?????

Posted by: wally | September 14, 2009 at 09:03 AM

Everyone is stuck on stupid.

For those who need a reminder, the equation of exchange is an algebraic way of stating a truism; that the product of the unit prices, and quantities of goods and services exchanged, is equal (for the same time period), to the product of the volume, and velocity of money. Velocity is the rate of speed at which money is being spent.

It is self-evident from the equation that an increase in the volume, and or velocity of money, will cause a rise in unit prices, if the volume of transactions increases less, and vice versa. This is merely algebra, but it has an important economic application.

The economic question arises from differing opinions as to whether the monetary authorities (The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee) can control both the volume and velocity of money, and the effects of changes to the volume and velocity of money, in production and employment, as well as on prices.

Historically, it is mathematically impossible to miss any swing in economic activity. Why? Because all demand drafts drawn on all money creating depository institutions cleared through demand deposits – except those drawn on MSBs, interbank, and the U.S. government.

The Sept. 1981 top in AAA bond yields, was calculated at 1/1000 of a basis point off of the 1977 "base period". Of course, the near perfect correlation was somewhat lucky.

Posted by: flow5 | September 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM

Thanks for the lively commentary. A few reactions to the reactions:

diemos kicks things off with this: "Economists got it wrong because there's not one who understands the difference between a positive and a negative feedback loop."

I may not quite understand the reference, but it seems to me that at least one prominent economist -- Chairman Bernanke -- understands the distinction pretty well (http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/bernanke20080822a.htm).

"The Federal Reserve's response to this crisis has consisted of three key elements. First, we eased monetary policy substantially, particularly after indications of economic weakness proliferated around the turn of the year. In easing rapidly and proactively, we sought to offset, at least in part, the tightening of credit conditions associated with the crisis and thus to mitigate the effects on the broader economy. By cushioning the first-round economic impact of the financial stress, we hoped also to minimize the risks of a so-called adverse feedback loop in which economic weakness exacerbates financial stress, which, in turn, further damages economic prospects."

Anonymous offers: "Economists got it wrong because they only know how to model liquid markets. The fact that most markets are somewhat illiquid (that is, the decisions of participants frequently affect prices to varying degrees) means that the profession needs a major paradigm shift."

This is in the end, I think, a variation on the Krugman criticism of the efficient markets hypothesis. And it is, actually, a criticism with which I have some sympathy. My understanding of the Federal Reserve's shift to "non-traditional" policies -- described here: http://macroblog.typepad.com/macroblog/2009/04/snapping-ropes-and-breaking-bricks.html -- is fundamentally about the arrival of a crisis-induced segmentation of markets. I'd argue that such segmentation -- or absence of arbitrage, if you will -- is not a property that ought be invoked indiscriminantly, but segmented markets, trading frictions, and the like are model features than can be constructed well enough with a prettty standard economist's toolkit.

Which brings me to this comment from PE: "Modern macroeconomic models in the DSGE mould are all offshoots of the Arrow-Debreu model. There is no need for money in an Arrow-Debreu world and so they will never ever be useful for understanding a monetary-based economy. So I disagree with David, a paradigm shift is required."

No argument there -- almost. Most modern macroeconomic models are indeed offshoots of the Arrow-Debreu model. In simple terms, this means that a perfectly competitive, frictionless economy serves as a benchmark. But the New Keynesian model is not frictionless. As I noted in my earlier post, "sticky" wages and prices are central to the framework. As I also said, I think we have learned that these price rigidities are not up to the task of capturing the financial frictions that seem so important now that we have so clearly seen them. But the problem is not an unthinking devotion to the Arrow-Debreu ideal. (I also concede that the existence of money is not well motivated in a perfectly frictionless world, and very little attention is given in New Keynesian models as to the precise forms of the market imperfections that would give rise to a monetary economy. Here again, though, there are some quite prominent mainstream economists who are all over the issue: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~swilliam/papers/newmonetarism.pdf)

Some of the other comments I hope to address -- at least implicitly -- in the next post. Thanks again for the input.

Posted by: David Altig | September 15, 2009 at 02:17 PM

One more thing. One final point. David Pearson calls me out for some selective memory: "Your archives only go back to December 2008. If you would be kind enough to post your pre-Fed writings, there would be much ground to explore on the question of how economists got it wrong.

Not to be over-critical, but you are quoting yourself favorably here. I think that misses the vast complacency that you exhibited in the year or two leading up to the crisis."

Let me be clear. I used my comments from the 2005 conference because I still hold those sentiments, not because I claim anything close to prescience. Around the time I made the referenced comments referenced in the previous post, I said this, in print, in an exchange with Nouriel Roubini (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111202112287190860,00.html):

"You are right, of course, to point out the risks, and the longer we ignore those risks the bumpier the ride will be. But I see turbulence, at worst, not a flaming crash."

Not my best call, but I will also point out that the debate at the time was about whether large fiscal and current account deficits would cause a run on the dollar. The prediction of a hard landing due to those dynamics wasn't really any closer to way things played out.

Posted by: David Altig | September 15, 2009 at 03:26 PM

To add a rather less erudite note to the discussion, that takes us back to Greenspan’s rule at the Fed.

David was invited to a conference in October of 2007 which I attended. He gave a rather general talk about the status of the housing market then. I got up and asked an impertinent question: “where have the regulators been during this ‘irrational exuberance’ in the housing market?” David’s comment is seared in my memory. He said, “oh, the Fed doesn’t go around looking for bubbles to pop”. And I thought to myself: “why the heck not?”.

The rest is history. Now David of course was just following Greenspan’s dicta, but the social cost of such ideology is just monumental.

Posted by: hcg | September 15, 2009 at 09:38 PM

OK -- One more thing:

Several of the comments strike a somewhat skeptical, even nihilistic, tone with respect to the prospect for economic models (as the profession understands the concept) to be of much value at all (at best). To that skepticism, I’d like to push back.

I often tell students that every statement about economic phenomena contains some assumptions about preferences (what people want), technologies and endowments (the resources people have to get the things they want), and how economic activity is coordinated. Economic models are just devices to lay those assumptions bare, and to follow them to their logical conclusions. Economic theory, expressed through an explicit model, is a way to hold the storyteller responsible for the coherence of the story.

These narratives have consequences, of course, as they do partially drive decisions—that is their purpose. To put it another way, an explicit economic framework helps put the “informed” in “informed judgment.” When the moral of the story leads to missteps, economists ought to (and do) think long and hard about what went wrong and why. And the public is right to ask, and even demand, that the profession does so.

My current thinking, which I was trying to emphasize in the previous post, derives from an uneasy feeling that the New Keynesian model we thought was working so well was heretofore built on a not-sophisticated-enough model of financial intermediation, which leads to a not-sophisticated-enough monetary transmission mechanism, which leads to a not-sophisticated-enough notion of what a sound monetary policy rule looks like. Questions like "might the Taylor rule amplify financial market volatility" in a model where financial elements are taken seriously are, to my mind, first order.

It is also the type of question that, I contend, can be addressed by adding to the cumulative product of macroeconomic theory as it exists today. These amendments might well include changes in the way we model information and expectations formation – as emphasized by Professor Krugman and discussed in this interview with New York University professor Tom Sargent: http://www.cesifo-group.de/pls/guestci/download/CESifo%20Working%20Papers%202005/CESifo%20Working%20Papers%20March%202005/cesifo1_wp1434.pdf. I admit that I am personally a bit hesitant about straying too far from the assumption of rationality --- strong assumptions about individual rationality were themselves added to mainstream macroeconomic models because their absence appeared to have led economists astray in the past. (See the 1970s.) But hey, let a thousand flowers bloom.

Posted by: David Altig | September 16, 2009 at 03:51 PM

hcg -- I don't really remember the conference, but I am prepared to fully own the comment, as I think the response you relate is still the one I would give. Trying to answer questions like "Where are the bubbles" and "What can we do to pop them" presumes an awful lot of information. If really smart people with big loads of money on the line don't get it right I'm not sure why it would be presumed that policymakers will. I think our efforts are better spent trying to find -- and then avoid -- policy choices that contribute to instability, and creating an infrastructure that is robust to the inevitable imbalances and mistakes when thet arise.

Posted by: David Altig | September 16, 2009 at 04:19 PM

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August 06, 2009

Every recovery is the same; each recovery is different

Two weeks ago, macroblog looked at the rather pessimistic expectations for what the economic recovery might look like this time around. Included was part of the narrative noting that structural adjustments are likely to impede a quick snapback in gross domestic product (GDP) over the coming quarters.

Macroblog reader Bryan Lassiter asked, "Do economists typically predict a weaker recovery than history suggests?" Good question. To state the question in a slightly different way, "Has the United States ever been in a situation where it experienced a deep recession and forecasters subsequently predicted a slow recovery that ultimately proved to be incorrectly pessimistic?"

To get at these questions, we can look at real-time real GDP data and the Survey of Professional Forecasters (SPF) available from the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia (while the SPF started in 1968, forecasts of real GDP began in 1981).

080609

The chart plots the depth of the recession on the x axis and strength of recovery on the y axis (updated from the 7/24 post to include last Friday's GDP release). The blue diamonds were constructed using forecasts that were made in the quarter the recession officially ended; the red squares are what actually happened.

To illustrate the exercise, pretend we're back in the fourth quarter of 2001 and the recession is over (although we didn't know it). Given what we thought we knew about the economy at the time, we can look at what forecasters were expecting in terms of GDP and compare it with what was ultimately reported by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. Looking at the 2001 recession, we can see that the expectations for recovery were not that far off, but the severity of the recession was lessened—partly because of data revisions and partly because of forecast error. The 1990–91 recession showed a similar pattern, but in reverse. That is, the recovery forecasts were close to the actual experience, but the depth of the recession ended up being more severe than initially thought.

What stands out in the chart is the recovery following the 1981–82 recession. In real time, four-quarter GDP growth was expected to be about 3.5 percent but wound up being much stronger at nearly 8 percent. In this instance, the response is yes to the initial question of whether economists typically predict a weaker recovery. With the 1981–82 episode, we saw a recession where economists had forecast a recovery that ultimately turned out to be much stronger than anticipated. However, the 1981–82 blue diamond was still relatively close to the cluster of other recessions on the chart, meaning the recovery forecast was not exceptionally weak. Thus, the current recession still seems to be an outlier. Given the almost 4 percent decline experienced in GDP, the hope would be to see something stronger than the 2.5 percent growth expected over the next year.

Whatever the impediments to a sharp recovery, forecasts are certainly telling us that economists are treating this recession as being different from previous ones.

To help track the economy going forward, check out our weekly Economic Highlights and Financial Highlights.

By Mike Hammill, economic policy analyst at the Atlanta Fed

August 6, 2009 in Business Cycles, Economic Growth and Development, Forecasts | Permalink

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Interesting.

But if I understand the graph correctly, I think there's a bit of sample selection bias. You are only considering data points where we know ex post that the recession ended and recovery started on that date. The forecasters didn't know that.

Take a simple example: suppose GDP follows a random walk, with a 50% chance of an increase and a 50% chance of a decrease. The rational forecast will always be for no change. But if we only look at data points where recession ended, we will always see positive growth. So forecasters will always appear to have underestimated the speed of a recovery.

We are comparing: the unconditional forecast of the speed of recovery; with the actual speed of recovery, conditional on recovery happening.

Posted by: Nick Rowe | August 07, 2009 at 08:19 AM

If the forecasts were always the correct direction but only 50% of the right size, you'd conclude that the forecasters were simply too timid, and just double the published forecast.

Alas, recoveries are called too early, leading to the magnitude of a recovery being larger than forecast, but the growth from the point of forecast until the recovery mark being more accurate, even though the short-term forecast was probably the wrong direction.

It seems this counting method is almost designed to give too few data points to analysis. Why not look at the typical 1-year-ahead forecasts, and see how much of all the turns -- both positive and negative -- are captured? With more observations, and fewer issues about selectivity, one could better see that predicting the future much different than the trend is furiously difficult and fraught with error.

And we're not even into the potential biases from the usage of these forecasts. We might debate whether it's more of a problem for society -- for investors, policy-makers, businesspeople -- to have a too-optistic or too-pessimistic outlook. Since part of forecasts for a long time has been cheerleading, and consumer confidence is endogenous here, we can expect lots of well-intentioned happy talk, just like we heard going into the recession.

Posted by: Walt French | August 07, 2009 at 06:58 PM

Nick - I kind of think that’s the whole point of looking at “real time”. To see forecasters’ behavior at the end of a recession with the information they had available to them. They might have had a hunch it was over, but were uncertain about it (sound familiar?). GDP doesn’t follow a random walk with a 50-50 chance of going up or down. It tends to go up more than down - remember productivity, labor & capital? I agree that GDP goes up after a recession ends - the question is by how much and how fast. And, if the economists are way off this time around.

Posted by: jb | August 10, 2009 at 09:31 AM

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July 24, 2009

A look at the recovery

Earlier this week my boss, Atlanta Fed President Dennis Lockhart, weighed in with his views about the shape of the economic recovery to come while speaking at a meeting of the Nashville, Tenn., Rotary Club:

"The economy is stabilizing and recovery will begin in the second half. The recovery will be weak compared with historic recoveries from recession. The recovery will be weak because the economy must make structural adjustments before the healthiest possible rate of growth can be achieved."

This quote was noted by Rebecca Wilder at News N Economics, along with similar sentiments from Nouriel Roubini and Mary Daly at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. You might add to the list Tim Duy's comments at Wall Street Pit and this assumption from Moody's Investor Services, reported at Seeking Alpha:

"Moody's predicts a 'hook-shaped' recovery path for banks, 'characterized by an upward tilt that lies somewhere in between a U- and an L-shaped economic recovery, implying a painful journey.' "

Says Dr. Wilder of the prospective recovery: "pathetic."

More colorful language than I would use, but if current forecasts come true, the early stages of the recovery will be as unusual as the recession itself.

How unusual? See for yourself:

072409

The chart plots the four-quarter growth rate of gross domestic product (GDP) from the trough of a recession against the depth of the corresponding contraction, as measured by the cumulative loss of GDP over the course of the downturn. The points within the red circle represent all previous postwar recessions, and they form a nice, neat, easily discernible pattern. That is, the pace of growth in the first year after a recession has, in our history, been reliably related to how bad the recession was. The deeper the recession, the faster the recovery.

The points within the blue circle are based on forecasts of GDP growth from the third quarter of this year through the third quarter of 2010, obtained from the latest issue of Blue Chip Economic Indicators (which reports survey results from "America's leading business economists"). From top left of the circle to bottom right, the points represent the 10 lowest forecasts of the most optimistic members of the 50 Blue Chip forecasting panel, the panel's consensus (or average) forecast, and the 10 highest forecasts of the most pessimistic panel participants.

I chose the third quarter as the reference point because nearly two-thirds of the Blue Chip respondents indicate that, in their view, the recession will indeed end in the third quarter of this year. Assuming this occurs, this recovery would appear to be a big outlier. Either we are about to continue making history—and not in a good way—or current guesses about the medium-term economy are way too pessimistic.

On another note, if you would like to do a little prognosticating of your own, I commend to you our new weekly editions of Economic Highlights and Financial Highlights.

By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed

July 24, 2009 in Business Cycles, Economic Growth and Development, Forecasts | Permalink

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I'd be interested to see the recovery estimates of Blue Chip respondents in prior recessions...do economists typically predict a weaker recovery than history suggests (4 qtr GDP growth of ~2-3x the peak-to-trough GDP decline)? I'm also curious about the dispersions of prior recovery estimates versus current.

Posted by: Bryan Lassiter | July 24, 2009 at 06:14 PM

How can you have historical context without 1900-1942 on the graph? I call BS on the whole presentation without including the only relevant period of history in the past century.

Posted by: Able | July 25, 2009 at 02:14 PM

I didn't see 1937 on the scattergram.

Posted by: Alan von Altendorf | July 25, 2009 at 08:10 PM

It's not a recession. We are about to make history, and "not in a good way."

Posted by: Gregor | July 26, 2009 at 11:40 AM

Is the Y axis also inflation adjusted?

Posted by: cubguy | July 26, 2009 at 10:35 PM

A very powerful chart. The statement "the deeper the recession, the faster the recovery" is also consistent with "reverting to the mean" tendency of the stock market.

Posted by: Business Cycle Investor | July 27, 2009 at 09:34 AM

Isn't part of this comparing conditional to unconditional expectations? If these economists assigned probability 1 to the recession ending in Q3 then their forecasts would represent expected post-recession growth and your chart would be fine. If not then they represent an unconditional expectation---mixing anticipated post-recession growth with the possibility of continued recession. Not that this disproves your point of course, but would be interesting to try and more carefully control for this.

Posted by: JGB | July 27, 2009 at 12:39 PM

I'm a semi-retired business economist and do not have the historic data, but the consensus always forecast a weak recovery.

In 1981 I won the NABE annual forecasting contest by forecasting that the recovery from the 1980 recession would be an average recovery. It was the strongest forecast in the contest.

Posted by: spencer | July 27, 2009 at 03:13 PM

Thank you for laying out the playing field in such a succinct manner. The current projections do not fit well with the post-war data base. They are more akin to the decade long glide path of the depression, and why not. Many of the same dynamics are in place including deflationary pressures, unbalanced world trade, a predatory financial industry, and declining personal incomes and the accompanying debt deflation. The impending retirement boom is overhanging in the face of poor fixed income prospects.

This time around, Keynes is leading the charge, supported by loose monetary policy. I think the chart needs at least one data point from the pre-war period.

Posted by: Dan | July 28, 2009 at 07:04 AM

At some point, I will have to stop being surprised by economists who think the current recession should resemble earlier recessions just because they are all called recessions.

Cripes. A recession is a name for a few broad symptoms. If you want to diagnose the disease, you need to look at all the symptoms and consider the patient's history.

If I encountered a doctor who gave the same diagnosis to all patients experiencing nausea and fever, I'd expect that the doctor would occasionally fail to catch a very severe condition. Likewise with economists who consider the recession label to be sufficient for diagnosis.

Posted by: ottnott | July 28, 2009 at 02:20 PM

ottnott,

If you stray away from the tiny bit of information about what economists think in the graph, and bother to read what they say, many think this recession will not be resolved like other recessions. The graph itself shows that Blue Chip contributors do not think this recession will be resolved in similar manner to other recessions. Even the biggest optimists among them think this one is unlike others. So I have to ask, whatever are you talking about? Where do you see evidence here, or in the writings of professional economists, that they simply take "recession" as all the information needed about the current period?

Posted by: kharris | July 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM

Kharris,

"This time its different", its what you hear every time from the so called economists whether it is to explain why the economy should do well despite the dark clouds on the horizont or other way around why the dark clouds are here to stay despite first rays of light making thier way through the darkness.
The Deflation is caused by last years run up in comodity prices. Remeber, there is no deflation in a fiat system. Punishing the savers might not be fair but this the price we pay to avoid deflationary spiral like 1929-33.

Posted by: Buddy Aces | July 30, 2009 at 06:57 AM

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June 25, 2009

Private sector forecasts at variance

Economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate. That isn't a statement about the ability of forecasters, but rather a statement about the complexity of the economy. If you're looking for a humbling experience, I recommend you give it a try.

And today's economy would seem to be an exceptionally difficult environment in which to forecast. As economists peer into the future, there seems to be an unusually wide range of opinion about what to expect. Uncertainty is running pretty high right now in the minds of the top prognosticators.

Consider the following predictions from the Blue Chip panel of economists concerning the economy's growth rate a year and a half from now (fourth quarter 2010). The average growth rate expected in that time frame from the panel is 3 percent, which isn't that different from the six-quarter-ahead forecast they have made every June during the past 10 years or so. But if you compare the difference between the economic optimists (the 10 highest growth forecasts) relative to the economic pessimists (the 10 lowest growth forecasts), the discrepancy between the two views is large relative to recent history. In short, the forecasts on the optimistic end of the spectrum are now more optimistic while the pessimistic forecasts are a little more pessimistic.

062409a

Uncertainty over the medium-term outlook is particularly large regarding the experts' views on inflation. In the latest survey of the Blue Chip panel, the difference between the 10 highest and the 10 lowest inflation predictions for the fourth quarter of 2010 was a gaping 3.7 percentage points (compared with an average of about 1.5 percentage points over the past decade and a half). This wide range of opinions about inflation prospects started to emerge last year as economic conditions deteriorated.

062409b

Disharmony in the panel's inflation outlook doesn't so much suggest that those expecting inflation now see greater inflationary risks—at 3.2 percent the medium-term inflation prediction of the highest 10 inflation forecasts isn't materially different from where it has been since the late 1990s. Instead, the larger variance in the inflation outlook is coming from those at the bottom of the panel's forecast distribution that are anticipating even more downward price pressure than in previous years.

Pinpointing the future trajectory of the economy is generally considered more difficult near turning points in the business cycle—though the current uncertainty would appear to be particularly large, recession or not. Such uncertainty about the future is surely adding to the challenges facing the business community as it strives to get back on its feet.

By Laurel Graefe, economic research analyst at the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta

June 25, 2009 in Forecasts, Inflation | Permalink

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"Pinpointing the future trajectory of the economy is generally considered more difficult near turning points in the business cycle—though the current uncertainty would appear to be particularly large, recession or not. Such uncertainty about the future is surely adding to the challenges facing the business community as it strives to get back on its feet."

Reading this paragraph made me sigh. I remembered a conversation with Bob Eggert Sr. back in 1988 about why I was interested in studying economics. I was grilling Bob about the lack of concensus during the mid-80s at the critical point of inflection getting us clear of the last economic crisis. He replied that the concensus works best when conditions remain stable for a period of time- long enough for enough of the participants in the study to have some *confidence* in the outlook. At that point I asked him about studying the inflection points and he said that is really the study of political economy, and not true economics.

These divergences occur when paradigms shift. Bob is gone, but I see that clearly now.

Good luck young lady, and may you find a place to use your abilities.

Someday this war's gonna end...

Posted by: AllenM | June 25, 2009 at 03:13 PM

"That isn't a statement about the ability of forecasters, but rather a statement about the complexity of the economy. If you're looking for a humbling experience, I recommend you give it a try"

Just because the rest of the world can't doesn't certify that it's hard.

I figured it out in July 79. It is mathematically impossible to miss an economic forecast (at least out to one year).

Posted by: flow5 | June 26, 2009 at 02:37 PM

In spite of all complains about the unpredictability of macroeconomic variables, they can be actually accurately predicted. Unemployment rate in Italy is predicted for the period between 1974 and 2007 with an uncertainty (RMS) of 0.5% at a nine(9!)-year horizon. Essentially, we know now what will be in 2015:
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/434499-ivan-kitov/10544-unemployment-in-italy-will-reach-11-in-2012

Posted by: Ivan Kitov | June 30, 2009 at 08:00 AM

Just a correction. The paper with the prediction of Italian unemployment is published by the Euro Area Business Cycle Network: http://www.eabcn.org/members-research-papers

Posted by: Ivan Kitov | June 30, 2009 at 08:22 AM

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March 06, 2009

Dueling forecasts

When smart people debate, something interesting is bound to come of it, so I have been reading an interchange over the past couple of days in the blogs of Greg Mankiw and Paul Krugman. Krugman's blog provides the necessary background on the source of the debate:

"Greg Mankiw challenges the administration's prediction of relatively fast growth a few years from now on the basis that real GDP (gross domestic product) may have a unit root—that is, there's no tendency for bad years to be offset by good years later.

"I always thought the unit root thing involved a bit of deliberate obtuseness—it involved pretending that you didn't know the difference between, say, low GDP growth due to a productivity slowdown like the one that happened from 1973 to 1995, on one side, and low GDP growth due to a severe recession. For one thing is very clear: variables that measure the use of resources, like unemployment or capacity utilization, do NOT have unit roots: when unemployment is high, it tends to fall."

It is certainly true that when "unemployment is high, it tends to fall," but where it falls to is not always so obvious:

030609a

Prior to the 1973–75 recession, the average quarterly unemployment rate was 5 percent. If you had a forecast contemplating a return to "normal" following this particular recession you would have been holding your breath for a couple of decades.

Professor Krugman makes the central point, I believe, when he makes reference to the "difference between, say, low GDP growth due to a productivity slowdown… and low GDP growth due to a severe recession." That statement is, itself, recognition that the economy does periodically experience protracted episodes during which average growth and average unemployment simply do not revert to previous levels—at least not for a long time.

One of the striking things about the economic projections reported by the Reserve Bank presidents and Board's governors in the minutes from the last meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee was the rather large variation in views about GDP growth, even as far out as 2011:

030609b

That sense of uncertainty is shared by private forecasters:

030609c

What gives? There are lots of reasons for differences of opinions, and I obviously cannot (and should not) try to divine what is anyone else's deepest forecasting thoughts. But for me, "low growth due to severe recession" does not automatically imply a demand-driven downturn from which the economy will quickly spring back.

When I look ahead, I envision the U.S. economy over the next several years in terms of a simultaneous process of recovery and reformation: Recovery in the sense that the actual contraction of GDP will end, but reformation in the sense of structural transformation in financial markets, consumer behavior, and perhaps an adjustment of the global imbalances that are arguably at the root of much of the financial instability that has characterized the past decade.

If we are right, the long run is indeed rosy, but the long run will only arrive after some significant and protracted headwinds abate. And that is not a picture that suggests a rapid bounce back to "normal" growth.

By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed

March 6, 2009 in Economic Growth and Development, Forecasts, Labor Markets | Permalink

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That's very nicely, even gently and gentlemanly, put. Thanks for the clarification of something that's been bothering me. We are not only faced with the combination of a major recession inter-acting with a credit crisis (cf. Rogoff and Reinhardt) but the severity is triggering long-delayed structural adjustments in the socionomic system that we've been putting off for far too long. The chickens are coming home to roost and they're big, ugly and mean.

Posted by: dblwyo | March 06, 2009 at 05:58 PM

Most U.S. economic forecasters have plied their trade in the post 1980 world where asset, debt, and consumption growth have outstripped income growth. In the last 10 years non financial debt has increased $18tr
while national income has increased less than $6tr. The process is now running in reverse and has broad implications. The 8tr
in debt paydown/default needed to restore
the longer run debt/income ratio will be a headwind we face for years, not quarters. After-tax corporate profits increased from
a long term avg of 5.5% of gdp to 9% of gdp
during the debt expansion and are now headed
back down, perhaps for good. Business investment plays a key role in most economic
cycles while consumption is more stable. As
consumers repair their net worth through savings and debt repayment, the likely new lower level of consumption will surprise most forecasters. The cycle will steady itself when households have settled in at a lower consumption level that business can deliver at a 5% net margin. That is not in sight yet. The increase in govt spending and the expected improvement in net exports are small in relation to these secular changes.

Posted by: Dave A. | March 07, 2009 at 11:11 AM

"If we are right, the long run is indeed rosy, but the long run will only arrive after some significant and protracted headwinds abate."

I dont see any long run picture being rosy with the derelict energy policy we now have.
Lets not get distracted from that.

Posted by: retracer | March 07, 2009 at 12:08 PM

Interesting. Where does the USG regulatory and tax environment and consequent significant increases in the cost of doing business get factored in? Also, where does the likelihood of increased rigidity in labor markets due to [effectively] government mandated unionization of the U.S. workforce get factored in? The destruction of fossil fuel energy production for the chimera of "alternative" energy production? Etc., etc. The only outcome that seems assured as of today is an exponential increase in government involvement and control of U.S. business and markets. It seems to me that this might influence the dates and strength of "recovery" in the future.

Posted by: boqueronman | March 10, 2009 at 08:14 PM

Thank you for making the point that a reversal in the jobless rate need not mean that there is any particular trend to which the rate reverts. DeLong, in his first (second?) cut at Mankiw's unit root argument, seemed to imply that the jobless rate would return to some trend, so that the unit root question was not a big deal for real GDP. In comments, I made the point that the jobless rate didn't seem to have a stationary trend. No answer from DeLong (who tends not to respond to his comments section in a useful way). It is entirely an ego issue at this point, but I am happy to see I am not alone in seeing this point.

Posted by: kharris | March 11, 2009 at 07:40 AM

If Okun's Law holds, as Krugman seems to accept, the presence of a unit root in GDP says nothing about whether there's a unit root in unemployment. Okun's law says that the rate of unemployment depends on the change in GDP (this works best in log real GDP terms). If log real GDP has a unit root, its change will be stationary, so if Okun's Law holds, the rate of unemployment will be stationary. If we think of this as meaning that unemployment has a dynamically stable equilibrium, it still doesn't prevent the level of equilibrium unemployment from changing occasionally. Then it becomes a matter of distinguishing between those changes in observed unemployment which are due to changes in equilibrium unemployment and those which represent adjustment towards the equilibrium.
I would have expected that someone of Krugman's Keynesian leanings would actually tend to believe that there is a unit root in GDP. If there's no unit root, so GDP is trend stationary, the case for a stimulus program is much weaker.

Posted by: Brian Ferguson | March 11, 2009 at 12:07 PM

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October 22, 2008

The evolving economic outlook

I understand that economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate. The last time I looked, the root mean square error of economists’ year-ahead growth forecasts was 1.4 percentage points. In other words, you’d expect the consensus forecast to be within about 1½ percentage points of the actual outcome only about two-thirds of the time (and individual forecasts tend to be even worse than the consensus).

Accurate or not, predictions of the future are an essential input into decisions made throughout the economy, and the negative tone in the incoming data has led most forecasters to sharply cut their growth expectations through 2009. The first chart below shows how the Blue Chip consensus growth forecast for 2008–2009 has evolved.

Evolution of the 2008 Blue Chip Consensus Growth Forecast

As of October 10 (before forecasters had seen most of the September data), the Blue Chip consensus forecast showed the economy entering a period of negative growth last quarter and remaining that way (or near it) until the second quarter of next year with subpar growth continuing through the end of next year.

Indeed, the current Blue Chip growth projection for the U.S. economy is a sharp deterioration from what economists had been anticipating when the year began. In January, the consensus outlook called for the year to start off a little sluggishly before gradually resuming a more typical growth path. As the year unfolded, however, and the deep problems affecting the housing market became more evident, growth prospects waned.

Want some good news? Economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate. And they are especially inaccurate at turning points, which, according to the Blue Chip consensus, we’ve recently passed. Why do forecasts perform worst just when needed most? The shocks that hit the U.S. economy from time to time are complex and not very well behaved. The likelihood of extreme outcomes—so-called “tail risks”—vary from shock to shock. Moreover, there may be “nonlinearities” in response to these shocks, meaning economic relationships that operate one way when the economy is in an expansionary state may operate differently when the economy is in a recessionary state. So a model that may have worked well during the good times may not work so well during the bad.

Perhaps the evolution of the economic outlook during the previous business cycle is a useful example. Consider the next chart, which shows the evolution of the consensus forecast for 2001–2002, beginning with January 2002. As the data revealed the economy was in some distress, the economic outlook deteriorated—severely so when it became clear the U.S. economy was in recession (and in November 2002, the NBER officially declared that a recession had actually begun the previous March).

Evolution of the 2001-2002 Blue Chip Consensus  Forecast Recessionary Phase

But remember, there are (at least) two turning points in the business cycle. There’s the downturn and a recovery. So the same problems that make spotting recessions hard also make it hard to anticipate the rebound. Again, let’s look at what happened during the last business cycle. The next chart shows how the consensus forecast evolved as the economy transitioned from recession to expansion, which, coincidently, began in November 2001.

Evolution of the 2001-2002 Blue Chip Consensus  Forecast Expansionary Phase

Between November and May of that time, the incoming data revealed that the consensus forecasts made during the recessionary period were overly pessimistic. The onset of expansion occurred sooner, and with more strength, than economists initially expected.

I am not aware of any individual forecast that can consistently outperform the consensus. And this is not an argument denying the economy is facing difficult times. But perhaps it’s useful to keep in mind the limitations of economic forecasts in times like these.

By Mike Bryan, vice president and economist of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta

October 22, 2008 in Data Releases, Forecasts | Permalink

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I like many things about the University of Michigan consumer sentiment data that came out a few days ago.

They use partial rotating paired groups in their methodology which makes their data a little more useful.

The latest results from them, the people who actually PURCHASE goods and services on a daily basis were not at all pretty.

It's a useful comparator with the data set above.

Matt

Posted by: Matt Dubuque | October 23, 2008 at 08:42 PM

Greenspan made it very clear last week that computer models could not be used to perfectly predict the future. And we all know this intuitively- we actually play athletic games rather than award the win to the higher ranked team because you never know what can happen in real life. (Evidence: Phillies and Rays- no computer would have predicted this!)

The question now becomes what do we do to soften the slump and get back to recovery. The choice requires assumptions because we don't have perfect information. We can look at the patterns of past recessions. Steve Forbes does this in his excellent new article (http://www.forbes.com/hcome/forbes/2008/1110/018.html). It is important to remember how powerful and resilient the market is when it is given the opportunity to preform. Like an undervalued player, the market can come through in the clutch when the manager gets out of the way and lets the play do its thing.

Posted by: Randy | October 26, 2008 at 09:29 PM

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July 03, 2007

The World According To Goldman Sachs (And Almost Everyone Else)

From my email, "A Tale of Two Tail Risks," from Goldman Sachs' Michael Vaknin:

  • Sub-prime mortgage woes still hold centre-stage as housing fundamentals deteriorate further.
  • A full-blown spillover from credit markets to other asset classes is unlikely as corporate sector and global macro fundamentals remain strong.
  • Rather, credit market will feature less leverage, more convents, elevated volatility and gradual supply absorption.
  • Upward risks to global inflation also remain high on the list of what investors worry about currently.
  • On our baseline case, prudent monetary policy should limit a build-up of inflationary pressures.

Some details:

From a fundamental standpoint, there are two conflicting forces to consider. First, the ongoing deterioration in the residential housing market will continue to weigh on the mortgage market. Recent housing market data point to further inventory accumulation, while price indicators suggest the deceleration in house prices has gained more traction recently. The Case-Shiller 10- and 20-city composite indexes have declined sharply in April (7?% on annualized basis). The resulting decline in housing equity, along with the recent widening of mortgage rates and tightening of contractual mortgage conditions are all likely to keep credit investors on high alert.

On the bright side, corporate fundamentals remain fairly robust. Corporate default fundamentals are in good health, and from a macro perspective, corporate earnings are still supported by broadly favourable global demand conditions. While measures of industrial activity (including our Global Leading Indicator) have been somewhat softer than expected recently, from a level perspective the global manufacturing cycle remains comparatively strong, and a more broad-based weakness in the data is needed to shift this perception. Today's US ISM and the upcoming US payroll data are highly important in this respect.

That ISM report was, of course, a good one, although today's news on pending home sales failed to break the string of lousy housing data and factory orders for May were primarily lauded for being less bad than expected.  But put it together and the consensus seems to be that it all adds up to the Goldman Sachs story.  That's what came through in yesterday's round-up of forecasts from the Wall Street Journal, and the story that we're sticking to appeared again today in Bloomberg's coverage of the housing sales and orders reports:

Economists and the Federal Reserve predict growth will accelerate from its first quarter pace, the weakest since 2002, even as housing remains a burden. Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said last month there was no sign of "major spillovers'' from the housing slide. Industry reports for June show manufacturers are raising production as businesses spend on investment.

"The second half is coming together almost perfectly according to the Fed's plan,'' said Mark Vitner, senior economist at Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, North Carolina. "Housing is going to be a drag but if we get some strength in business spending then the economy will be able to handle it.''

Though some of the forecasters in that Wall Street Journal survey -- about 20 percent --- put inflationary risks at the top of their wish-not list, GS's Vaknin wants to ease their minds:

As global activity continues to grow at an above-trend rate and commodity prices remain elevated, a re-acceleration in consumer price inflation, particularly in the major markets, remains a clear risk to the outlook for financial asset returns. Consider that, on a year-on-year basis, headline inflation in advanced economies has accelerated from 1.7% in Q4:06 to around 2.0% currently, driven largely by higher food and energy prices. Such acceleration comes on the back of extended tightness in production capacity: According to the OECD, the output gap in this group of countries is about to move into a positive territory by year-end after hovering in negative levels since mid-2001.

Despite these seemingly worrying observations, we that think inflation, particularly in the G-7, should accelerate only moderately before stabilizing at benign levels early next year. Granted, elevated food and energy prices may keep headline inflation above core measures for a bit longer. But this should be seen in the context of two important developments: (1) US core inflation is on a genuine deceleration path, and (2) Monetary policy stance remains prudent in other major economies where upside inflation risks are clearly higher.

The "monetary policy stance" is key, and it probably explains why so many commentators are taking their predictions of a policy-rate cut off the table for the time being.

July 3, 2007 in Forecasts, Housing, Interest Rates | Permalink

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» June auto sales from Econbrowser
Not a good month for the domestic automakers. [Read More]

Tracked on Jul 4, 2007 10:53:11 AM

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July 02, 2007

Bad News Bulls

From the Wall Street Journal (page A2 in the print edition):

Economic growth in the U.S. is likely to recover as the year goes on, but that might not be an entirely good thing, according to the latest Wall Street Journal survey of forecasters.

The Journal's seers are feeling rather chipper about the near-term prospects for economic growth... 

Having run a veritable gantlet of threats to its health, the nation's economy is in a better place than it was just a few months ago...

The 60 economists who took part in the survey, conducted in mid-June, offered a mostly upbeat outlook for an economy that has recently sustained declines in both manufacturing and business investment, and that still faces a deepening housing slump.

With consumer spending holding up, a weaker dollar propelling U.S. exports and a pickup in production and investment, they expect real gross domestic product -- a broad measure of economic activity, adjusted for inflation -- to grow at an annualized rate of 2.6% in the second half of this year and 2.9% in 2008. That is down from 3.3% in 2006, but much better than the 0.7% pace of the first quarter of 2007.

... but worry that the Fed might ruin the party:

Forecasters, however, also see a mounting risk: Thanks to longer-term shifts in the U.S. and global economic landscapes, even a little growth could lead to a resurgence of inflation, which would be painful for American consumers and could cause the Federal Reserve to ride the brakes by keeping short-term interest rates higher.

The real-side rationale is pretty straightforward:

With consumer spending holding up, a weaker dollar propelling U.S. exports and a pickup in production and investment, they expect real gross domestic product -- a broad measure of economic activity, adjusted for inflation -- to grow at an annualized rate of 2.6% in the second half of this year and 2.9% in 2008. That is down from 3.3% in 2006, but much better than the 0.7% pace of the first quarter of 2007.

It is probably worth pointing out that the survey was conducted over the period from June 8th through  the 18th, before last week's run of negative news in the housing market.  And looking at the most recent spending data, Calculated Risk -- not a member of the survey panel as far as I know -- is skeptical that consumer spending is "holding up":

You can use the monthly series to exactly calculate the quarterly change in PCE [Personal Consumption Expenditures]. The quarterly change is not calculated as the change from the last month of one quarter to the last month of the next (several people have asked me about this). Instead, you have to average all three months of a quarter, and then take the change from the average of the three months of the preceding quarter...

... in general, the two month estimate is pretty accurate. Maybe June was exceptionally strong, or maybe April and May will be revised upwards, but the two month estimate suggests real PCE growth in Q2 will be about 1.5%.

That seems entirely plausible, but month-to-month and quarter-to-quarter changes in specific categories of spending tend to jump around:

Pce    :

Thus, to CR's initial question on perusing the May PCE numbers...

Is this just a one quarter slowdown? Or is this the beginning of a housing related slump in consumer spending?

... I'd side with those saying not slumpy enough to cause real problems -- at least not so far as we can tell at this point.  No, what the Journal's experts really seem concerned about is the price picture:

An increasing number of economists worry that the battle with inflation isn't over, despite the benign message sent by recent data. As of May, the Fed's preferred measure of inflation -- the "core" index of personal-consumption prices, excluding food and energy -- was up only 1.9% from a year earlier. That compares with 2.4% as recently as February.

It seems to me that The Skeptical Speculator has about the right take on the issue:

The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas publishes two other measures of inflation based on personal consumption expenditures. The first is the overall personal consumption expenditures price index that is already reported by the Commerce Department. The other is the trimmed-mean price index that excludes components of personal consumption expenditures that have the highest and lowest rates of change.

The latest data provided on the Dallas Fed website show that these other measures of inflation remain above the Federal Reserve's comfort zone. The 12-month inflation rate based on the overall PCE price index was 2.3 percent in May and the inflation rate based on the trimmed-mean measure was 2.2 percent...

Based on this observation the Skeptical One draws this conclusion...

...  with the economy expected to recover from the second quarter onward, further moderation is likely to be limited. In fact, many economists think inflation will re-accelerate as the level of resource utilisation in the economy remains high despite the recent slowdown.

... an opinion that is shared by the WSJ panel:

In the survey, one in five forecasters saw a resurgence of inflation as the greatest risk facing the economy. That is more than twice the proportion who saw it as the No. 1 risk six months ago. As a result, they now see little chance that the Fed will lower its target for short-term interest rates from the current 5.25% by December. They do, however, lean toward a cut to 5% by June 2008. Six months ago, they were betting the Fed would cut rates to 4.75% by December.

December is, of course, a long way away.

July 2, 2007 in Exchange Rates and the Dollar, Federal Reserve and Monetary Policy, Forecasts, Inflation, The "Landing" Strip | Permalink

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Maybe we need to ask the question, what does a 2.5% growth forecast mean?

Is it a forecast of sub-par growth?

Or is a forecast that given weak productivity and sluggish labor force growth that this is the best the economy can do?

I'm not sure, but lean towards the later case. If so it implies that the system will not have sufficient excess capacity to prevent wages, unit labor cost and inflation from accelerating. If so it implies that the fed will not ease and that we are just seeing a pause before fed funds start climbing again.

Do others disagree that 2.5% probably is the best the economy can do right now?

Posted by: spencer | July 03, 2007 at 07:30 AM

Spencer -- "is that the best the economy can do right now?" is a tricky question. I have a real business cycle heart beating deep within, so I make a distinction between short-run potential growth and long-run potential growth. I do think that 2.5% is below the long-run potential -- the 2.9% forecast for 2008 is getting closer. However, I'm less certain about the balance of the year. I suspect that there is still a fair amount of resource reallocation to pass through as a result of the housing market travails -- that could certainly damp potential growth in the short-run. On the other hand, I lean against the rote assertion that higher-than-expected growth necessarily brings inflationary pressure. Given the stance of monetary policy, I suspect that any acceleration in economic activity will be associated with a productivity pick-up, which I would lose no sleep over at all.

Anyway, darn good question.

Posted by: Dave Altig | July 03, 2007 at 11:33 AM

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