September 10, 2009
Economists got it wrong, but why?
Economists definitely received some bad publicity this past week, most prominently in the New York Times, where Paul Krugman asked "How Did Economists Get It So Wrong?," a nonrhetorical question he goes on to answer this way:
"As I see it, the economics profession went astray because economists, as a group, mistook beauty, clad in impressive-looking mathematics, for truth… the central cause of the profession’s failure was the desire for an all-encompassing, intellectually elegant approach that also gave economists a chance to show off their mathematical prowess.
"Unfortunately, this romanticized and sanitized vision of the economy led most economists to ignore all the things that can go wrong. They turned a blind eye to the limitations of human rationality that often lead to bubbles and busts; to the problems of institutions that run amok; to the imperfections of markets—especially financial markets—that can cause the economy’s operating system to undergo sudden, unpredictable crashes; and to the dangers created when regulators don't believe in regulation."
For at least one part of the Krugman critique, I have some sympathy. On the occasion of a 2005 conference honoring the 25th anniversary of Chris Sims's pathbreaking article "Macroeconomics and Reality"—an article that was itself a critique of empirical practices then dominant in central banks—I had this to say about the dangers of groupthink and questions we might be missing as a consequence:
"We are close to falling dangerously in love with the basic New Keynesian framework, the sticky price aspects of it in particular. Here is a simple observation: In the [statistical models] that are identified in the usual ways, inflation wants to drop like a rock in response to a basic technology shock. Models that engineer significant price inertia don’t want to let that happen…
One final point. In my time at the Fed, I have come to appreciate that most of the really important policy choices have nothing to do with Taylor rules or the like. They have to do with those episodes of financial crisis in which Taylor-like rules are woefully inadequate. Think here October 1987, the period from summer 1997 through the end of 1998, and the aftermath of September 11, 2001."
Though Professor Krugman spends a lot of time attacking acolytes of the so-called "Chicago" school, the fact is that the New Keynesian framework (described here by Greg Mankiw) is the workhorse theory within policymaking circles. If economists were unable to see their way to the macroeconomic consequences of the unfolding crisis, criticism needs to start with that framework.
I think such criticism is warranted, but the thrall of the New Keynesian world view has little to do with how "beautiful" the model is or that it is built on a lot of "impressive-looking mathematics." Quite the opposite. As I said in my 2005 comments, "the dynamics of the policy briefing game seem to favor forecasting performance over theoretical integrity." The models that we use for policy analysis are constructed on the basis of what connects with the facts we see (or think we see) in the data. If these models fail to contemplate things that might happen, it is precisely because there is a bias toward frameworks that explain history.
Robert Lucas zeroed in on this point in his "defence of the dismal science":
"The Economist’s briefing [criticizing the foresight of mainstream economists] also cited as an example of macroeconomic failure the 'reassuring' simulations that Frederic Mishkin, then a governor of the Federal Reserve, presented in the summer of 2007. The charge is that the Fed’s FRB/US forecasting model failed to predict the events of September 2008. Yet the simulations were not presented as assurance that no crisis would occur, but as a forecast of what could be expected conditional on a crisis not occurring. Until the Lehman failure the recession was pretty typical of the modest downturns of the post-war period. There was a recession under way, led by the decline in housing construction. Mr Mishkin's forecast was a reasonable estimate of what would have followed if the housing decline had continued to be the only or the main factor involved in the economic downturn."
Some attempts have been made to exploit the information contained in data from the Great Depression. (If you have patience for technical analysis you can find an example here.) And there have been many attempts to jerry-rig existing models to capture the financial shocks and their aftermath, especially once we had seen what that sort of reality looks like. But, by and large, the last year has been a data point we haven’t seen before, and it is not so surprising that models designed to capture the average quarter in the economy’s life would not do so well when very unaverage events arise.
It is certainly clear that the dominant pre-2007 strain of New Keynesian models was inadequate to the task that would confront us post-2007. That this was the case was not unknown. If I may quote myself again:
"I have in the past agreed that it is useful to think of the policy choices [following financial market events like the stock market crash of 1987] as policy shocks. I would still argue that today. But it sure would be helpful if at least some of these events would appear as something more than completely random disturbances. In other words, it would be very useful to have usable measures of what we loosely call 'financial market fragility,' and more useful still to have a coherent [sophisticated] quantitative model that captures them."
The problem with that prescription was that the relative infrequency of such events would likely have required us to step outside of our existing data-driven policy models and apply more theory, not less.
So does all this lead to the conclusion that we ought to ditch the presumptions of rationality and (largely) efficient markets, as Professor Krugman suggests? I have my doubts. Even some of the examples in the Krugman article seem to rely on the power of those ideas. In describing the problem of the lower bound of zero on nominal federal funds rates, he says this:
"During a normal recession, the Fed responds by buying Treasury bills—short-term government debt—from banks. This drives interest rates on government debt down; investors seeking a higher rate of return move into other assets, driving other interest rates down as well; and normally these lower interest rates eventually lead to an economic bounceback…
"But zero, it turned out, isn’t low enough to end this recession. And the Fed can't push rates below zero, since at near-zero rates investors simply hoard cash rather than lending it out. So by late 2008, with interest rates basically at what macroeconomists call the 'zero lower bound' even as the recession continued to deepen, conventional monetary policy had lost all traction."
That whole story relies on a conventional monetary transmission mechanism, one that fundamentally plays off of efficient markets thinking.
In another passage from the New York Times article, we have this:
"I like to explain the essence of Keynesian economics with a true story that also serves as a parable, a small-scale version of the messes that can afflict entire economies. Consider the travails of the Capitol Hill Baby-Sitting Co-op.
"This co-op, whose problems were recounted in a 1977 article in The Journal of Money, Credit and Banking, was an association of about 150 young couples who agreed to help one another by baby-sitting for one another’s children when parents wanted a night out. To ensure that every couple did its fair share of baby-sitting, the co-op introduced a form of scrip: coupons made out of heavy pieces of paper, each entitling the bearer to one half-hour of sitting time…
"Unfortunately, it turned out that the co-op’s members, on average, wanted to hold a reserve of more than 20 coupons, perhaps, in case they should want to go out several times in a row. As a result, relatively few people wanted to spend their scrip and go out, while many wanted to baby-sit so they could add to their hoard. But since baby-sitting opportunities arise only when someone goes out for the night, this meant that baby-sitting jobs were hard to find, which made members of the co-op even more reluctant to go out, making baby-sitting jobs even scarcer…
"In short, the co-op fell into a recession."
That's a great example, but where is the irrationality? That tight monetary policy might cause a downturn in the economy may be absent from purely classical models, but it is dead center of the New Keynesian framework. The problem was that our mechanism for capturing monetary nonneutrality—essentially wage and price stickiness—was far too simplistic to capture the shocks that we were about to face (and that we arguably faced to lesser degrees during past financial market events).
In short, I accept the criticism that the dominant New Keynesian framework for forecasting and economic modeling needs some work (to say the least). I'm less convinced that we require a major paradigm shift. Despite suggestions to the contrary, I've yet to see the evidence that progress requires moving beyond the intellectual boundaries in which most economists already live.
By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed
September 10, 2009 in Business Cycles, Forecasts | Permalink
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Comments
Posted by:
diemos |
September 10, 2009 at 03:24 PM
Economists got it wrong because they only know how to model liquid markets. The fact that most markets are somewhat illiquid (that is, the decisions of participants frequently affect prices to varying degrees) means that the profession needs a major paradigm shift. The faults of modern economic models (including the New Keynesian models) were all described by Keynes in chapter 12 of the General Theory.
Posted by:
Anonymous |
September 10, 2009 at 08:57 PM
I called a bad recession 3 years ago ...it was pretty simple.
The Case-Shiller housing index was obviously a bubble and indicated to me that we had just experienced the largest misallocation of resources in the history of the world.
There were plenty of other signs early on ...inverted yeild curve, part time employment fell off a cliff and so on.
That so many economists didn't use some basic common sense is shameless. What happened was the equivalent of 99.9% of meteorologists telling everyone not to worry when Hurricane Katrina was 10 miles from landfall.
Anyway, I have an Economics degree, but work in the software field. I read econ blogs as a hobby and I predicted far better than the "professionals."
The scariest part is that now everyone who predicted it wouldn't happen is now saying it's over. They have kicked the can down the street with the stimulus and the bailouts, but we still don't have a clue what any big bank is worth or what is on the Fed/Treasury balance sheets.
I think there is still alot more pain ahead ...hope I'm wrong this time.
Posted by:
Jim Hancock |
September 11, 2009 at 02:35 AM
Economists got it wrong because they think in Gold Standard. They do not understand the causality in the flow identity
S - I = G + NX - T
Economists think that this equation implies Government spending doesn't change S and I goes down. It is exactly the opposite. S goes up with no direct on I.
Roughly, the correct logic is Government spending increases deposits and bank reserves simultaneously. Taxes do the opposite. Bond sale just reduces bank reserves. Adding up, deficits increase private sector savings.
Because the right hand side of the equation written above was negative for a long time now, (the stock of) private sector savings kept going down.
Such a thing was already known to Wynne Godley - the absolute gold medalist for the prediction of the crisis. http://www.levy.org/pubs/sevenproc.pdf
Posted by:
Rams |
September 11, 2009 at 04:49 AM
Modern macroeconomic models in the DSGE mould are all offshoots of the Arrow-Debreu model. There is no need for money in an Arrow-Debreu world and so they will never ever be useful for understanding a monetary-based economy. So I disagree with David, a paradigm shift is required. Robert Clower has expressed these ideas far more eloquently and powerfully in his address to the Southern Econonomic Association in 1993.
Posted by:
PE |
September 11, 2009 at 08:26 AM
You are absolutely correct about the Taylor rule being the workhorse during normal times. Monetary policy is the tool of choice for micromanaging and making incremental adjustments to the economy.
The bigger problems and economic crises are NOT adequately addressed by monetary policy. Those who advocate ONLY the use of monetary policy are trying to fight the economic battles with most of the tools locked in the tool kit. Monetary policy loses traction as it approaches the zero bound. Monetary policy also loses traction as interest rates approach double digits. Monetary policy is too broad in its effects to target single sectors that are out of whack and cannot operate outside the normal bounds without creating unwanted distortions.
The largest risks of inflation are commodity inflation or shortages (oil shocks, housing bubbles, tech stock bubbles, etc.). Monetary policy is impotent for addressing these problems. Attempts to use monetary policy as a corrective cannot work because any policy will leave a negative impact on multiple sectors of the economy. Commodity inflation problems are narrow sector problems that are best addressed by regulations that can narrowly target the problem sector.
Oil shock- Carter fixed that with regulations requiring energy efficiency. Efficiency standards worked very well until efficiency standards were relaxed. Implementing new tougher standards and promoting alternatives going forward will prevent future oil shocks. Housing bubble: Ideological opposition to enforcing lending standards and sufficient collateral allowed the bubble to develop. Tech stocks, inadequate enforcement by SEC and inadequate transparency requirements. All of these problems could have and should have been addressed. However, we got the sorry excuse that nothing could be done. Something could have been done, but it meant admitting that Monetary-Policy-Only ideology is WRONG and that better use of targeted regulatory policy is necessary. The anti-regulation crowd is ignoring the fact that all economies operate under a set of rules and no set of rules is ever perfect. Rules need to be changed and ENFORCED to keep the "game" clean, promote transparency and fairness. Those who are trying to make excessive profits by gaming the system will always work to undermine fairness and transparency in the system because transparency and fairness are the enemies of gaming the system).
The battles prior to 1980 included wage-price spirals. Because of globalization, the US labor market is no longer capable of creating wage-price spirals. The old models that focus narrowly on national labor are inadequate for a global labor market. Commodity inflation and bubbles have replaced wage-price spirals as the enemy of stability. This needs to be acknowledged and the system adjusted to deal with current threats. We need to replace the old school anti-regulation crowd with new blood that understands how to create and implement good regulations.
Posted by:
bakho |
September 11, 2009 at 08:40 AM
Let's face it - economists rarely get anything right so it's hardly surprising that they failed to predict the financial crisis.
The underlying problem is that economies are wayyyy too complex to model effectively and truly understand. They cannot be predicted over any significant period of time any more than stock prices or the weather. Of course you won't find an economist who will actually admit that because their living depends on maintaining the fallacy that they know what's going on.
And so we must resign ourselves to a continual series of excuses - "We failed because we didn't take *this* factor into account. If only our models had fully offset *that* factor with *this*...". Blah, blah, blah ad infinitum. Truly a dismal "science", but one that will always be there due to the human propensity to try and see patterns and order where they don't exist.
Posted by:
John Smith |
September 11, 2009 at 09:30 AM
David,
Your archives only go back to December 2008. If you would be kind enough to post your pre-Fed writings, there would be much ground to explore on the question of how economists got it wrong.
Not to be over-critical, but you are quoting yourself favorably here. I think that misses the vast complacency that you exhibited in the year or two leading up to the crisis.
Posted by:
David Pearson |
September 11, 2009 at 09:30 AM
OK, we all need to step back and remember that, when asking why the perspective of mainstream economics failed to do something we want it to do, we need to examine our own perspective, as well.
I have admired the work our host does since well before his arrival at the Fed. However, in this case, we have him saying "Look, the concerns outlined in a paper I wrote before this all happened got it right." Yes, and what a strong pull such success could have on one's own thinking. Strong enough,perhaps, that one might miss points others are trying to make. I, who have no such successful paper to attract my thoughts, saw Krugman's essay as largely a critique of our regulatory failure, rather than our central banking failure. If I read Krugman rightly, then saying that the Fed depends heavily on the New Keynesian model does not address what Krugman said. If you look at the effort to kill off regulatory oversight over the past decades, much of it does seem to rely on the excuse that market discipline will take care of limiting risk. Greenspan, who dominated policy making (at least in an advisory capacity) for a very long time, certainly took the "markets get it right" view, even if he was a New Keynesian when making monetary policy, and even if he stopped being a New Keynesian and became an Ad Hocian whenever disaster struck.
It strikes me that both the fresh-water/salt-water issue and the failings of New Keynesian thinking to account for liquidity and solvency problems need to be addressed. Room for both, because there are consequential failings associated with both.
Not that Anonymous was addressing Krugman, but Krugman did point out the failure of classical models to account for liquidity, and pointed out that other economic thinkers have taken into account the impact of capital depletion on the behavior or arbitraguers.
We should also avoid thinking along the lines of "Economists got it wrong because..." Economics is not monolithic, which is more or less the point of the exchange here and of Krugman's article. I also think there is good evidence that the biggest financial failure and recession since the Great Depression was not due to any one thing - not failure to understand the flow represented in the savings and investment equation, not failure to regulate, not failure to understand that risk doesn't go away when we ship it off to somebody else.
We did many things wrong. Each of us is likely to focus on one or two things, and that is to the good, within limits. Division of intellectual labor is likely to help us understand the individual facets of the crisis. What we need to avoid is the claim that our particular part of the puzzle was THE cause. It was THEM causes, not THE.
Posted by:
kharris |
September 11, 2009 at 11:57 AM
Blaming NeoKeynesianism without mentioning what caused NKians to rise to the fore--the pretense that the GUT of Economics had to be a Macro that conforms to the delusional Neoclassical principles*--is being careful to tell only half of the story. We could be nice and presume that is because you don't want to prove Krugman correct, but I'll decline that.
The pretense that group behavior is exactly identical to summing individual behaviors by the "freshwater" schools gave us the crime of NeoKeynesianism.
*The traditional wisecrack that the use of Neo- before an established branch of economics should be taken to indicate that the philosophy is the opposite of the original is noted for the record.
Posted by:
Ken Houghton |
September 11, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Is it a coincidence our financial system imploaded within 10 years of Glass-Steagall's repeal. The only reasonable explanation for why so few Economists questioned the wisdom of financial deregulation without calling for a mega-overseer (just in case) is our Economists fell prey to the same short-sighted self-interest that afflicted so many others in our "free market" system.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html
Posted by:
bailey |
September 11, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Ha, maybe we should add a "Best when used by" date on our money. Coors turns blue now when cold- maybe we could turn Hamilton red when hot?
Posted by:
FormerSSresident |
September 11, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Remember all the banksters and Wall Streeters who have prospered despite the crisis and whether or not they were trained economists does not obviate the fact that they knowingly gamed the system to their benefit only.
Posted by:
ECON |
September 11, 2009 at 01:44 PM
appreciate your post Prof Altig, and also appreciate John Cochrane's defense of economics in his recent publication.
It is impossible to analyze the financial disaster from purely an economic point of view. To do so regardless of whatever school you subscribe to will give you a myopic vision.
Certainly there should be much to say about how our banking industry is structured, what roles it should play, and how it's regulated. My fear here is that the largest most politically well connected participants will get to decide the rules of the game.
There are many questions that should be asked like, "Should Investment banks be allowed to trade for their own prop account and act as a broker, and as a financier?" "Should investment banks that proprietary trade be able to use the public market to raise capital?" "Should internalization of order flow be allowed to happen, or is it better for all orders to go through a centralized transparent marketplace?"
How about the agencies that graded the debt? How about the distortions to the market place caused by externalities due to government intervention, or the creation of a willing and non-transparent OTC marketplace?
This is much larger than the jaded lens Krugman views the world through.
Posted by:
Jeff |
September 11, 2009 at 02:32 PM
David Altig's remarks here, particularly his conclusion, "I've yet to see the evidence that progress requires moving beyond the intellectual boundaries in which most economists already live." reminded me of a WSJ debate about job-market "slack" Max Sawicky and I had with David back in August 2005.
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112419322049714334,00.html
Unemployment was 5% and David was inclined to view continued low labor force participation rates as more a result of demographic trends and informed choice than of policy failure. Speaking of demographic trends, I had a look just now at the time series of the employment to population ratio for 16-24 year olds and I think that picture tells a story it would be very, very foolish to overlook.
Since the comments here don't accept graphic files, I'll have to invite readers to my EconoSpeak post at:
http://econospeak.blogspot.com/2009/09/job-market-slack-as-leading-indicator.html
It seems to me that the youth employment to population ratio has been signaling something or other for the last 20 to 25 years. If it isn't signaling policy failure or paradigm exhaustion, then I'd like to know what it is signaling.
Posted by:
Sandwichman |
September 11, 2009 at 07:07 PM
"Economists got it wrong because they think in Gold Standard. They do not understand the causality in the flow identity
S - I = G + NX - T
Economists think that this equation implies Government spending doesn't change S and I goes down. It is exactly the opposite. S goes up with no direct on I.
Roughly, the correct logic is Government spending increases deposits and bank reserves simultaneously. Taxes do the opposite. Bond sale just reduces bank reserves. Adding up, deficits increase private sector savings.
Because the right hand side of the equation written above was negative for a long time now, (the stock of) private sector savings kept going down.
Such a thing was already known to Wynne Godley - the absolute gold medalist for the prediction of the crisis. "
This is perhaps the most incoherent thing ever written. Try making sense.
Posted by:
Jimmy Jabbadoo |
September 12, 2009 at 12:41 AM
Guys ...it was easy ...we spent $4-5 trillion on houses we didn't need. Why do we need a complicated economic model to figure out this is bad??
If all your income is allocate to bills and you suddenly discover your spouse put 4 months of your annual salary on credit cards ...it is gonna get ugly!!
Why is this so hard for people to wrap their head around? The potential train wreck was obvious, but people ignored the signs because it is uncomfortable to go against the herd.
Posted by:
Jim Hancock |
September 12, 2009 at 02:27 AM
The New Keynesian framework is simply the New Classical/RBC framework with frictions thrown in so that the models can work better with existing data. The Classical foundations are there and obvious, and it is hard for anyone to claim that removing the frictions would make for models that would have worked better in crisis situations. Yes we need more theory, but we don't need more Classical theory. That stuff doesn't work in crisis situations, period.
It is also incredible to see Krugman's account of a liquidity trap situation get described as a "conventional money transmission mechanism" that fundamentally plays off "efficient markets" thinking.
Posted by:
Jason |
September 12, 2009 at 04:38 AM
Let's assume Dave A. is correct in summing: "I've yet to see the evidence that progress requires moving beyond the intellectual boundaries in which most economists already live."
What now? My question is: Why should John Q. Public take seriously any Economist who is not arguing for our need to correlate our economic indicators & measuring methodology to correlate to a population sampling (any size)?
For me it's simple, the FED has the clout. It alone sets the framework for Macroeconomic argument. For evidence listen to the jokes at FED analyst meetings. EVERYONE knows the extent & seriousness of the problem, yet NO ONE speak to it.
My advice to PK, BDL, DA & way too many of their peers is even simpler: Get out of the box & speak to the overarching problems of your chosen profession or sit back & enjoy the life it affords you.
Posted by:
bailey |
September 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Puuhlease, you mean the "media experts" got it wrong. Those media experts are being confused with actual economists (Michael Hudson, Paul Craig Roberts, James Galbraith, et al.) who predicted correctly.
The system was gamed and the countervailing powers (regulations from the New Deal) were gutted. Keynes warned (as did John Kenneth Galbraith) as to what would occur without the proper countervailing factors in place.
Regulation Q (anti-usury) needs to be resurrected. Glass-Steagall needs to be resurrected. Proper interviewing, vetting and background checks of those working at SEC needs to be resurrected (and please, no more Blackwater or Kroll (now Veritas Capital) nor USIS clownish background verifications).
Posted by:
sgt_doom |
September 12, 2009 at 01:33 PM
Jimmy (Jabbadoo),
I have made sense of it! Deficits increase private sector savings - rather than decreasing it. Its an accounting identity - $-for-$, ex-ante and ex-post.
Till the time Economists keep making this mistake of not accepting this identity, they will always get stuff wrong :)
Posted by:
Rams |
September 13, 2009 at 05:54 AM
Why should economists get in right? In both academia and media, there is much more benefit to being wrong with everybody else than in being right by yourself. Only the handful that are not dependent on other's opinions can afford to be right.
Posted by:
Ed |
September 13, 2009 at 03:20 PM
Comments do not allow a full-scale debate on this issue. I can not help referring to own piece presenting a complimentary agenda for economic profession. Briefly, we should scrutinize basic measurements, which are generally not compatible over time as all statistic agencies urge researchers. To begin with, we have to develop a consistent definition(s) to macroeconomic variables and re-estimate past readings. Just a simple example, the definition of unemployment has multiple revisions last 20 years ans still has many versions.
The paper is - Does economics need a scientific revolution? http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/14476/
This is a reaction to the paper "Economics need a scientific revolution" by J.-P. Bouchaud in Nature http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7217/full/4551181a.html
Posted by:
Ivan Kitov |
September 14, 2009 at 03:04 AM
Economists got it wrong because it did not matter to them if they were wrong. Their jobs being tied to much different things then being right. Many non-economists called it very well.
Posted by:
Simon |
September 14, 2009 at 04:23 AM
In a sense, we are all customers of economic theory because it ifluences in one way or another decisions made by economic and financial authorities. As the customers we should ask the economic profession to formulate a new research plan. This plan has to define clear (for general public and experts in various fields) ideas and tools which are necessary to answer the question why the theory has failed to describe 2007-2010, and when it expects a new unpredictable change likely to happen.
Meanwhile, it would be helpful for economists to regain public trust. This current discussion on the difference between various (failed) approaches does not look like helpful. If they follow the route of the negation of the presence of educated audience waiting for reasonable answers, they will completely detach themselves from the scientific community and general public as well.
Posted by:
Ivan Kitov |
September 14, 2009 at 08:51 AM
Got it wrong? Sure did.
And what are they doing about it? They are saying it was the 'other' economists who got it wrong.
Do you know of any prominent economist who has changed anything in response to being wrong?????
Posted by:
wally |
September 14, 2009 at 09:03 AM
Everyone is stuck on stupid.
For those who need a reminder, the equation of exchange is an algebraic way of stating a truism; that the product of the unit prices, and quantities of goods and services exchanged, is equal (for the same time period), to the product of the volume, and velocity of money. Velocity is the rate of speed at which money is being spent.
It is self-evident from the equation that an increase in the volume, and or velocity of money, will cause a rise in unit prices, if the volume of transactions increases less, and vice versa. This is merely algebra, but it has an important economic application.
The economic question arises from differing opinions as to whether the monetary authorities (The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Open Market Committee) can control both the volume and velocity of money, and the effects of changes to the volume and velocity of money, in production and employment, as well as on prices.
Historically, it is mathematically impossible to miss any swing in economic activity. Why? Because all demand drafts drawn on all money creating depository institutions cleared through demand deposits – except those drawn on MSBs, interbank, and the U.S. government.
The Sept. 1981 top in AAA bond yields, was calculated at 1/1000 of a basis point off of the 1977 "base period". Of course, the near perfect correlation was somewhat lucky.
Posted by:
flow5 |
September 15, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Thanks for the lively commentary. A few reactions to the reactions:
diemos kicks things off with this: "Economists got it wrong because there's not one who understands the difference between a positive and a negative feedback loop."
I may not quite understand the reference, but it seems to me that at least one prominent economist -- Chairman Bernanke -- understands the distinction pretty well (http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/bernanke20080822a.htm).
"The Federal Reserve's response to this crisis has consisted of three key elements. First, we eased monetary policy substantially, particularly after indications of economic weakness proliferated around the turn of the year. In easing rapidly and proactively, we sought to offset, at least in part, the tightening of credit conditions associated with the crisis and thus to mitigate the effects on the broader economy. By cushioning the first-round economic impact of the financial stress, we hoped also to minimize the risks of a so-called adverse feedback loop in which economic weakness exacerbates financial stress, which, in turn, further damages economic prospects."
Anonymous offers: "Economists got it wrong because they only know how to model liquid markets. The fact that most markets are somewhat illiquid (that is, the decisions of participants frequently affect prices to varying degrees) means that the profession needs a major paradigm shift."
This is in the end, I think, a variation on the Krugman criticism of the efficient markets hypothesis. And it is, actually, a criticism with which I have some sympathy. My understanding of the Federal Reserve's shift to "non-traditional" policies -- described here: http://macroblog.typepad.com/macroblog/2009/04/snapping-ropes-and-breaking-bricks.html -- is fundamentally about the arrival of a crisis-induced segmentation of markets. I'd argue that such segmentation -- or absence of arbitrage, if you will -- is not a property that ought be invoked indiscriminantly, but segmented markets, trading frictions, and the like are model features than can be constructed well enough with a prettty standard economist's toolkit.
Which brings me to this comment from PE: "Modern macroeconomic models in the DSGE mould are all offshoots of the Arrow-Debreu model. There is no need for money in an Arrow-Debreu world and so they will never ever be useful for understanding a monetary-based economy. So I disagree with David, a paradigm shift is required."
No argument there -- almost. Most modern macroeconomic models are indeed offshoots of the Arrow-Debreu model. In simple terms, this means that a perfectly competitive, frictionless economy serves as a benchmark. But the New Keynesian model is not frictionless. As I noted in my earlier post, "sticky" wages and prices are central to the framework. As I also said, I think we have learned that these price rigidities are not up to the task of capturing the financial frictions that seem so important now that we have so clearly seen them. But the problem is not an unthinking devotion to the Arrow-Debreu ideal. (I also concede that the existence of money is not well motivated in a perfectly frictionless world, and very little attention is given in New Keynesian models as to the precise forms of the market imperfections that would give rise to a monetary economy. Here again, though, there are some quite prominent mainstream economists who are all over the issue: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~swilliam/papers/newmonetarism.pdf)
Some of the other comments I hope to address -- at least implicitly -- in the next post. Thanks again for the input.
Posted by:
David Altig |
September 15, 2009 at 02:17 PM
One more thing. One final point. David Pearson calls me out for some selective memory: "Your archives only go back to December 2008. If you would be kind enough to post your pre-Fed writings, there would be much ground to explore on the question of how economists got it wrong.
Not to be over-critical, but you are quoting yourself favorably here. I think that misses the vast complacency that you exhibited in the year or two leading up to the crisis."
Let me be clear. I used my comments from the 2005 conference because I still hold those sentiments, not because I claim anything close to prescience. Around the time I made the referenced comments referenced in the previous post, I said this, in print, in an exchange with Nouriel Roubini (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111202112287190860,00.html):
"You are right, of course, to point out the risks, and the longer we ignore those risks the bumpier the ride will be. But I see turbulence, at worst, not a flaming crash."
Not my best call, but I will also point out that the debate at the time was about whether large fiscal and current account deficits would cause a run on the dollar. The prediction of a hard landing due to those dynamics wasn't really any closer to way things played out.
Posted by:
David Altig |
September 15, 2009 at 03:26 PM
To add a rather less erudite note to the discussion, that takes us back to Greenspan’s rule at the Fed.
David was invited to a conference in October of 2007 which I attended. He gave a rather general talk about the status of the housing market then. I got up and asked an impertinent question: “where have the regulators been during this ‘irrational exuberance’ in the housing market?” David’s comment is seared in my memory. He said, “oh, the Fed doesn’t go around looking for bubbles to pop”. And I thought to myself: “why the heck not?”.
The rest is history. Now David of course was just following Greenspan’s dicta, but the social cost of such ideology is just monumental.
Posted by:
hcg |
September 15, 2009 at 09:38 PM
OK -- One more thing:
Several of the comments strike a somewhat skeptical, even nihilistic, tone with respect to the prospect for economic models (as the profession understands the concept) to be of much value at all (at best). To that skepticism, I’d like to push back.
I often tell students that every statement about economic phenomena contains some assumptions about preferences (what people want), technologies and endowments (the resources people have to get the things they want), and how economic activity is coordinated. Economic models are just devices to lay those assumptions bare, and to follow them to their logical conclusions. Economic theory, expressed through an explicit model, is a way to hold the storyteller responsible for the coherence of the story.
These narratives have consequences, of course, as they do partially drive decisions—that is their purpose. To put it another way, an explicit economic framework helps put the “informed” in “informed judgment.” When the moral of the story leads to missteps, economists ought to (and do) think long and hard about what went wrong and why. And the public is right to ask, and even demand, that the profession does so.
My current thinking, which I was trying to emphasize in the previous post, derives from an uneasy feeling that the New Keynesian model we thought was working so well was heretofore built on a not-sophisticated-enough model of financial intermediation, which leads to a not-sophisticated-enough monetary transmission mechanism, which leads to a not-sophisticated-enough notion of what a sound monetary policy rule looks like. Questions like "might the Taylor rule amplify financial market volatility" in a model where financial elements are taken seriously are, to my mind, first order.
It is also the type of question that, I contend, can be addressed by adding to the cumulative product of macroeconomic theory as it exists today. These amendments might well include changes in the way we model information and expectations formation – as emphasized by Professor Krugman and discussed in this interview with New York University professor Tom Sargent: http://www.cesifo-group.de/pls/guestci/download/CESifo%20Working%20Papers%202005/CESifo%20Working%20Papers%20March%202005/cesifo1_wp1434.pdf. I admit that I am personally a bit hesitant about straying too far from the assumption of rationality --- strong assumptions about individual rationality were themselves added to mainstream macroeconomic models because their absence appeared to have led economists astray in the past. (See the 1970s.) But hey, let a thousand flowers bloom.
Posted by:
David Altig |
September 16, 2009 at 03:51 PM
hcg -- I don't really remember the conference, but I am prepared to fully own the comment, as I think the response you relate is still the one I would give. Trying to answer questions like "Where are the bubbles" and "What can we do to pop them" presumes an awful lot of information. If really smart people with big loads of money on the line don't get it right I'm not sure why it would be presumed that policymakers will. I think our efforts are better spent trying to find -- and then avoid -- policy choices that contribute to instability, and creating an infrastructure that is robust to the inevitable imbalances and mistakes when thet arise.
Posted by:
David Altig |
September 16, 2009 at 04:19 PM
August 19, 2009
How fast can the economy grow?
The recession may be ending (and may, in fact, have ended, according to the majority of economists recently surveyed by the Wall Street Journal) but, as Friday's consumer confidence report suggests, the uncertainty about the course of future growth is far from resolved. The most recent consensus forecast from the panel assembled for the monthly Blue Chip Economic Indicators does suggest a nice bounce back into positive growth territory, bringing to an end a four-quarter run of gross domestic product (GDP) contraction.
What remains interesting, however, is the range of disagreement about just how fast the recovery will be. The upper and lower black lines in the chart above delineate the 10 most optimistic forecasts (the upper lines) and the least optimistic forecasts (the lower lines) among the Blue Chip panel's 51 economists. Most interesting is the fact that some collection of theses economists are, in any given quarter, guessing that growth will not break a 2 percent annual pace before we exit 2010.
That uncertainty is compounded by an even more consequential uncertainty, lucidly emphasized recently by Menzie Chinn (here, here, and here): How fast can we grow before straining the economy's capacity? In other words, is slow growth the best we can expect given the economy's current potential?
The output gap—the difference between the current level of GDP and estimated potential—has long been standard fare in policy analysis. Over at iMFdirect, the International Monetary Fund's blog, Ajai Chopra explains why we care:
"What would be merely a curiosity during better times—after all, potential output is a largely abstract concept measuring the level of output an economy can produce without undue strain on resources—has become a particular worry in the context of the global economic crisis…
"Right now, budget planners across Europe are scrambling to estimate the strength of the blow the crisis has dealt to public finances, and not knowing the growth potential of their economies greatly complicates their task. If they overestimate potential growth, they would underestimate the need for fiscal adjustment once the crisis has dissipated, raising thorny issues of fiscal sustainability in the longer run.
"Central bankers, too, are looking for guidance on the path of potential output. Their decision on when to start winding down current crisis policies depends on the difference between potential and actual output, the so-called output gap. If the output gap is closing faster because of a drop in potential, policymakers might decide to increase interest rates a little earlier and a little higher to prevent inflation from rising."
Economists also do not lack methods for estimating the output gap and, just in case the field is not crowded enough, Atlanta Fed economist Jim Nason has done some investigating of his own. Jim looked at a variety of statistical estimates of the output gap and arrived at what is now a pretty familiar conclusion. To wit, there is substantial variation in output gap estimates across the different methods, and I do mean substantial: The gap estimates for the second quarter of 2009 range from –0.5 to nearly –11 percent depending on which method is used. In other words, some methods imply the gap is very large, others say the gap is rather small.
I am tempted to invoke the ancient economists' chant, "noh-bah-de-noz," but real-life policymakers don't have that luxury. So we delve in the details and try to sort out what seems like the best approach. (If you have a technical bent, you can do the same with Jim's estimates by following this link.) As we sort it out, though, Ajai Chopra gives some sound advice:
"As for central bankers, they should also act on the information they have, although researchers such as Athanasios Orphanides (now Governor of the Central Bank of Cyprus and member of the ECB's Governing Council) have sensibly suggested that central banks should tread carefully by reducing the importance of the output gap in their decision making.
"More generally, policymakers—be they in the central bank or in the ministry of finance—would do well by communicating their assumptions about potential output growth to the public."
With that in mind, I will leave you with the recent communication on the subject offered by Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta President Dennis Lockhart:
"Many observers see substantial slack in the economy that could persist for some years. Economists' more formal term for slack is "output gap." We at the Atlanta Fed see a meaningful output gap developing, but in our view it is smaller than would normally be associated with the weak pace of growth we expect over the next couple of years because all the obstacles to the natural pace of growth already mentioned have brought down the economy's potential for the medium term."
So, as President Lockhart indicates, mark us down, for now, on the low end of output gap scale.
Update: The San Francisco Fed's John Fernald and Kyle Matoba offer some related thoughts in the newest edition of the Bank's Economic Letter (hat tip to Econbrowser).
By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta
August 19, 2009 in Business Cycles, Economic Growth and Development, Federal Reserve and Monetary Policy | Permalink
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Call me crazy, but I think this thing will turn and do so fast. We'll be busy again soon. But after that initial buzz, I don't know.
Today people are so connected and capital networks and social networks stronger than ever in world history. That is a factor not included, even in 01-02. Let's see if I'm right.
Posted by:
FormerSSResident |
August 20, 2009 at 07:07 PM
Turn good that is, from above.
Posted by:
FormerSSResident |
August 20, 2009 at 07:08 PM
Wow, and ouch. What a lot of puts and takes. Forgive me if the old quote about sound and fury signifying little occurs but nice to see all the different approaches. Reading thru them all just now it seems to be that the semi-traditional methods still seem to work and have been more accurate empirically. What Menzie calls a PDF/New Keynsian approach reflects in the CBO, FRB and IMF/WB estimates. Given that Menzie's last post which shows the IMF projections where GDPpot drops to 1% in 2010 and barely climbs back to 2% by 2015, with unemployment not reaching its speed limit until 2016 seems like the defensible position. ???
You might want to look at John Hussman of Hussman Funds take as well:
http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc090817.htm
It also seems to me a brute force approach would look at CalculatedRisk's work on comparing this to prior downturn's employment where this is deep and slow and "flipping" it around in a mirror image (an algebraic rotation)would also suggest "breakeven" in 2016.
Taken all together and reflecting Pres. Lockhart's view it would seem we're in a painfully slow and low recovery for most of the next decade.
Comments, reactions, correction ? Please tell me I'm wrong.
Posted by:
dblwyo |
August 20, 2009 at 07:13 PM
The economies capacity to supply is not a problem. Productivity growth was remarkable in the second quarter. The amount of unused productive resources is staggering. Capacity utilization is 12.4 points below its 1972-2008 average. Returning to the 64.3% employment/population ratio of 1999-2000 would necessitate an 11+ percent increase in private sector employment in just two years (or a 13% increase in three years).
Getting back to full employment is a challenge, but not impossible. Four times in the last 70 years, private sector employment has grown by more than 11 percent in just 24 months. Three of them were war related: entry into World War 2, demobilization after WW2 and entry into the Korean War. The peace time example was from January 1977 to January 1979 when private employment rose 11.5 percent. This two year period also set a 50 year record for percentage increase in total hours worked in the non-farm economy and for increases in the employment-population ratio.
What caused such remarkable growth in 1977 and 1978? Answer: a generous TEMPORARY Federal tax credit for increases in employment above 102 percent of the firm’s employment.level in the previous year
The Democratic Congress elected in 1976 arrived in Washington at a time of high unemployment, anemic (3.4% during 1976) employment growth and rising inflation due to the quadrupling of world oil prices in 1973-74. It responded with a temporary New Jobs Tax Credit (NJTC) for 1977 and 1978 that lowered the marginal cost of expanding a firm's workforce by roughly 15 percent on average (more for low wage and high turnover firms). Despite foot dragging by the IRS, one third of the nation’s private employers received NJTC credits that lowered their 1978 taxes by $3.1 billion. By the final quarter of 1978, capacity utilization had spiked, real output had increased 15 percent and unemployment had dropped from 7.8 to 5.9 percent.
The expiration of the NJTC at the end of 1978 did not unravel these effects. During the next 12 months, output and employment continued to grow albeit at a slower pace and the employment-population ratio and unemployment rate were stable.
The later 1980 and 1982-83 recessions were caused by the 160% increase in oil prices precipitated by the Iranian revolution & the Iran/Iraq war and the Federal Reserve response to inflationary consequences of the oil shock.
http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/articles/242/
Posted by:
John Bishop |
August 22, 2009 at 06:50 PM
Perhaps this discussion is too macro. A good chunk of our unused capacity is capacity to build more housing--when we already have a substantial excess supply. (Data here: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/hvs.html). Getting that unused capacity productive again would not make us a wealthier country, it would only make us a more-over-supplied-in-housing country.
Some of the resources used to create this productive capacity need to be redirected to other sectors, but some of the resources are so specialized (backhoes, nail guns, chop saws) that they may rust away before they are needed again.
This suggests that meaningful capacity is lower than currently measured, our output gap is less, and the room for a rebound is less.
Posted by:
Bill Conerly |
August 23, 2009 at 01:01 PM
As a business writer, I hope the economy is improving. In the 30-plus years I have been reporting on small business topics, I have never witnessed more devastation in the marketplace. It is a Hurricane Katrina out there. What small business needs is a big infusion of credit to jump start the market. Credit has been cut off to businesses through no fault of their own. To cite just one example, a contractor had a $500,000 line of credit reduced to zero over night. Following that he laid off staff members. This sector of the economy is in desperate need of help. The big banks received help, now it is time to help the little guy.
Ron D
Posted by:
Ron Derven |
August 25, 2009 at 11:03 PM
August 14, 2009
What's really different about this recession?
The short answer to the question posed in the title of this blog post is, of course, "lots of things." One of those things is featured in the latest edition of Economic Highlights, the Atlanta Fed's weekly digest of newly released economic statistics. Here, specifically, is a chart reflecting the trajectories of individuals working part-time for economic reasons in the current and past recessions.
As the chart clearly shows, the increase in people reporting that they are involuntarily working part-time rather than full-time is considerably higher in this recession than in past recessions. Although the increase in these workers has moderated some since the spring of this year, the number of people in the category of working part-time for economic reasons remains at 8.8 million, well above the level of past contractions in both absolute and relative terms.
This recession has given us many puzzles to mull over. Now we can add the unusual pattern of part-time work to the list.
Side note: We invite you to check out SouthPoint, the Atlanta Fed's new weekly blog on regional economic conditions in the Southeast.
By Menbere Shiferaw, senior economic research analyst at the Atlanta Fed
August 14, 2009 in Business Cycles, Labor Markets | Permalink
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looking at fed data on employment I get the
feeling that the '01 recession never ended.
Posted by:
who_saves |
August 14, 2009 at 07:43 PM
Can you define "part-time?" There is quite a difference between, say 35 hours a week and 20 hours. Thanks.
Posted by:
MiTurn |
August 15, 2009 at 01:20 AM
Very interesting;
another gauge is the no. of temporary workers, which is considered a leading indicator.
Posted by:
hedonist |
August 15, 2009 at 05:17 AM
This is also happening in Australia -
"Since the high of November 1992 the rate generally decreased to the recent low of 10% in May 2008 and has since risen to 13.4% in May 2009." from
Posted by:
Moz |
August 16, 2009 at 07:39 PM
Yes I agree, all recessions are different, but somehow, I think the US will run out of money long before this mess can be corrected. Hey, why is the overnite funds rate ZERO? Do you want people to save money, and then interest rates on savings are almost nothing, and the banks take turns going out of business every weekend?
You're invited to comment on MY blogsite!
Thanks You, John DeFlumeri Jr.
Posted by:
John DeFlumeri Jr |
August 18, 2009 at 07:13 PM
August 06, 2009
Every recovery is the same; each recovery is different
Two weeks ago, macroblog looked at the rather pessimistic expectations for what the economic recovery might look like this time around. Included was part of the narrative noting that structural adjustments are likely to impede a quick snapback in gross domestic product (GDP) over the coming quarters.
Macroblog reader Bryan Lassiter asked, "Do economists typically predict a weaker recovery than history suggests?" Good question. To state the question in a slightly different way, "Has the United States ever been in a situation where it experienced a deep recession and forecasters subsequently predicted a slow recovery that ultimately proved to be incorrectly pessimistic?"
To get at these questions, we can look at real-time real GDP data and the Survey of Professional Forecasters (SPF) available from the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia (while the SPF started in 1968, forecasts of real GDP began in 1981).
The chart plots the depth of the recession on the x axis and strength of recovery on the y axis (updated from the 7/24 post to include last Friday's GDP release). The blue diamonds were constructed using forecasts that were made in the quarter the recession officially ended; the red squares are what actually happened.
To illustrate the exercise, pretend we're back in the fourth quarter of 2001 and the recession is over (although we didn't know it). Given what we thought we knew about the economy at the time, we can look at what forecasters were expecting in terms of GDP and compare it with what was ultimately reported by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. Looking at the 2001 recession, we can see that the expectations for recovery were not that far off, but the severity of the recession was lessened—partly because of data revisions and partly because of forecast error. The 1990–91 recession showed a similar pattern, but in reverse. That is, the recovery forecasts were close to the actual experience, but the depth of the recession ended up being more severe than initially thought.
What stands out in the chart is the recovery following the 1981–82 recession. In real time, four-quarter GDP growth was expected to be about 3.5 percent but wound up being much stronger at nearly 8 percent. In this instance, the response is yes to the initial question of whether economists typically predict a weaker recovery. With the 1981–82 episode, we saw a recession where economists had forecast a recovery that ultimately turned out to be much stronger than anticipated. However, the 1981–82 blue diamond was still relatively close to the cluster of other recessions on the chart, meaning the recovery forecast was not exceptionally weak. Thus, the current recession still seems to be an outlier. Given the almost 4 percent decline experienced in GDP, the hope would be to see something stronger than the 2.5 percent growth expected over the next year.
Whatever the impediments to a sharp recovery, forecasts are certainly telling us that economists are treating this recession as being different from previous ones.
To help track the economy going forward, check out our weekly Economic Highlights and Financial Highlights.
By Mike Hammill, economic policy analyst at the Atlanta Fed
August 6, 2009 in Business Cycles, Economic Growth and Development, Forecasts | Permalink
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Interesting.
But if I understand the graph correctly, I think there's a bit of sample selection bias. You are only considering data points where we know ex post that the recession ended and recovery started on that date. The forecasters didn't know that.
Take a simple example: suppose GDP follows a random walk, with a 50% chance of an increase and a 50% chance of a decrease. The rational forecast will always be for no change. But if we only look at data points where recession ended, we will always see positive growth. So forecasters will always appear to have underestimated the speed of a recovery.
We are comparing: the unconditional forecast of the speed of recovery; with the actual speed of recovery, conditional on recovery happening.
Posted by:
Nick Rowe |
August 07, 2009 at 08:19 AM
If the forecasts were always the correct direction but only 50% of the right size, you'd conclude that the forecasters were simply too timid, and just double the published forecast.
Alas, recoveries are called too early, leading to the magnitude of a recovery being larger than forecast, but the growth from the point of forecast until the recovery mark being more accurate, even though the short-term forecast was probably the wrong direction.
It seems this counting method is almost designed to give too few data points to analysis. Why not look at the typical 1-year-ahead forecasts, and see how much of all the turns -- both positive and negative -- are captured? With more observations, and fewer issues about selectivity, one could better see that predicting the future much different than the trend is furiously difficult and fraught with error.
And we're not even into the potential biases from the usage of these forecasts. We might debate whether it's more of a problem for society -- for investors, policy-makers, businesspeople -- to have a too-optistic or too-pessimistic outlook. Since part of forecasts for a long time has been cheerleading, and consumer confidence is endogenous here, we can expect lots of well-intentioned happy talk, just like we heard going into the recession.
Posted by:
Walt French |
August 07, 2009 at 06:58 PM
Nick - I kind of think that’s the whole point of looking at “real time”. To see forecasters’ behavior at the end of a recession with the information they had available to them. They might have had a hunch it was over, but were uncertain about it (sound familiar?). GDP doesn’t follow a random walk with a 50-50 chance of going up or down. It tends to go up more than down - remember productivity, labor & capital? I agree that GDP goes up after a recession ends - the question is by how much and how fast. And, if the economists are way off this time around.
Posted by:
jb |
August 10, 2009 at 09:31 AM
August 04, 2009
GDP benchmark revisions: Count me very surprised
Last Friday morning, the Bureau of Economic Analysis released its advanced estimate for second quarter gross domestic product (GDP) as well as its benchmark data revisions. These revised data tell us a slightly different story with a rather negative twist in looking at the last two recessions. The new GDP numbers show that the 2001 recession was not as severe as originally thought while the 2007 recession is worse than first reported. Below are the comparisons of the pre- and post-2005 benchmark data:
As a follow up to David Altig’s blog posting, "Unemployment Rate: Count Me Surprised," I took the graphs he used measuring cumulative percentage change loss for GDP against the peak unemployment rate during the recession. The GDP numbers below are updated with the new benchmark revision data:
Note: Macroeconomic Advisors data were used in the original post from July 23. However, since Macroeconomic Advisors has not yet updated their forecasts, I am assuming for the purposes of this blog post that the recession ended with the second quarter of 2009.
After these revisions it’s clear to see that the current recession is even more of a dramatic Okun’s Law outlier than was originally thought when observing the pre-revised data. As background, Brad DeLong described Okun’s Law thus in a recent blog post:
"If GDP (production and incomes, that is) rises or falls two percent due to the business cycle, the unemployment rate will rise or fall by one percent. The magnitude of swings in unemployment will always be half or nearly half the magnitude of swings in GDP."
Although the revised GDP data show more negative growth rates for the current recession, which should make the current recession less of an outlier using Okun’s Law, GDP growth during the 2001 recession was higher than the first observations, which changed the trend line and outweighed the effects of the revision to the data of the current recession.
By Courtney Nosal, economic research analyst at the Atlanta Fed
August 4, 2009 in Business Cycles, Data Releases, Labor Markets | Permalink
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From Wikipedia, "The name refers economist Arthur Okun who proposed the relationship in 1962 "
This is a 1950's and 60's relationship; it's hardly surprising that it doesn't hold in the post-OPEC, globalized, just-in-time, contingent labor world. And that's *before* throwing in the fact that this recession is a financial-panic recession, not a 'take away the punchbowl' recession.
Posted by:
Barry |
August 05, 2009 at 09:48 AM
So what are the chances that in this case (because of massive amount of gov't intervention) unemployment is now leading GDP and is a harbinger of larger GDP declines in the future?
Posted by:
cubguy99 |
August 05, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Tim Duy's latest (at http://tinyurl.com/lh9d5c):
"I have argued that most if not all of the jobs in the manufacturing sector simply are not coming back. My suspicion is that firms will use the recession to expand overseas supply chains wherever possible. "
Global labor arbitrage, the endless squeeze. Thanks Greenspan and all your neo-lib enablers, like Rubin, Summers, and the like. Thanks economics profession, for feeding the 'job destruction machine' with your ideologies and your denial.
Posted by:
lark |
August 05, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Well, it's also possible this is an allocation issue. Meaning where labor was once productive is now much more so somewhere else. I hope that's the case anyway.
The trick is as a worker, how do you know where that somewhere else is? You don't and that sucks.
If econ folks were suddenly all sent to China, what would we do with all those educated and well trained people?
Certainly whats happening now is they would go down the food chain. But in 10 years who knows...
Posted by:
FormerSSResident |
August 06, 2009 at 03:46 PM
July 24, 2009
A look at the recovery
Earlier this week my boss, Atlanta Fed President Dennis Lockhart, weighed in with his views about the shape of the economic recovery to come while speaking at a meeting of the Nashville, Tenn., Rotary Club:
"The economy is stabilizing and recovery will begin in the second half. The recovery will be weak compared with historic recoveries from recession. The recovery will be weak because the economy must make structural adjustments before the healthiest possible rate of growth can be achieved."
This quote was noted by Rebecca Wilder at News N Economics, along with similar sentiments from Nouriel Roubini and Mary Daly at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. You might add to the list Tim Duy's comments at Wall Street Pit and this assumption from Moody's Investor Services, reported at Seeking Alpha:
"Moody's predicts a 'hook-shaped' recovery path for banks, 'characterized by an upward tilt that lies somewhere in between a U- and an L-shaped economic recovery, implying a painful journey.' "
Says Dr. Wilder of the prospective recovery: "pathetic."
More colorful language than I would use, but if current forecasts come true, the early stages of the recovery will be as unusual as the recession itself.
How unusual? See for yourself:
The chart plots the four-quarter growth rate of gross domestic product (GDP) from the trough of a recession against the depth of the corresponding contraction, as measured by the cumulative loss of GDP over the course of the downturn. The points within the red circle represent all previous postwar recessions, and they form a nice, neat, easily discernible pattern. That is, the pace of growth in the first year after a recession has, in our history, been reliably related to how bad the recession was. The deeper the recession, the faster the recovery.
The points within the blue circle are based on forecasts of GDP growth from the third quarter of this year through the third quarter of 2010, obtained from the latest issue of Blue Chip Economic Indicators (which reports survey results from "America's leading business economists"). From top left of the circle to bottom right, the points represent the 10 lowest forecasts of the most optimistic members of the 50 Blue Chip forecasting panel, the panel's consensus (or average) forecast, and the 10 highest forecasts of the most pessimistic panel participants.
I chose the third quarter as the reference point because nearly two-thirds of the Blue Chip respondents indicate that, in their view, the recession will indeed end in the third quarter of this year. Assuming this occurs, this recovery would appear to be a big outlier. Either we are about to continue making history—and not in a good way—or current guesses about the medium-term economy are way too pessimistic.
On another note, if you would like to do a little prognosticating of your own, I commend to you our new weekly editions of Economic Highlights and Financial Highlights.
By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed
July 24, 2009 in Business Cycles, Economic Growth and Development, Forecasts | Permalink
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I'd be interested to see the recovery estimates of Blue Chip respondents in prior recessions...do economists typically predict a weaker recovery than history suggests (4 qtr GDP growth of ~2-3x the peak-to-trough GDP decline)? I'm also curious about the dispersions of prior recovery estimates versus current.
Posted by:
Bryan Lassiter |
July 24, 2009 at 06:14 PM
How can you have historical context without 1900-1942 on the graph? I call BS on the whole presentation without including the only relevant period of history in the past century.
Posted by:
Able |
July 25, 2009 at 02:14 PM
I didn't see 1937 on the scattergram.
Posted by:
Alan von Altendorf |
July 25, 2009 at 08:10 PM
It's not a recession. We are about to make history, and "not in a good way."
Posted by:
Gregor |
July 26, 2009 at 11:40 AM
Is the Y axis also inflation adjusted?
Posted by:
cubguy |
July 26, 2009 at 10:35 PM
A very powerful chart. The statement "the deeper the recession, the faster the recovery" is also consistent with "reverting to the mean" tendency of the stock market.
Posted by:
Business Cycle Investor |
July 27, 2009 at 09:34 AM
Isn't part of this comparing conditional to unconditional expectations? If these economists assigned probability 1 to the recession ending in Q3 then their forecasts would represent expected post-recession growth and your chart would be fine. If not then they represent an unconditional expectation---mixing anticipated post-recession growth with the possibility of continued recession. Not that this disproves your point of course, but would be interesting to try and more carefully control for this.
Posted by:
JGB |
July 27, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I'm a semi-retired business economist and do not have the historic data, but the consensus always forecast a weak recovery.
In 1981 I won the NABE annual forecasting contest by forecasting that the recovery from the 1980 recession would be an average recovery. It was the strongest forecast in the contest.
Posted by:
spencer |
July 27, 2009 at 03:13 PM
Thank you for laying out the playing field in such a succinct manner. The current projections do not fit well with the post-war data base. They are more akin to the decade long glide path of the depression, and why not. Many of the same dynamics are in place including deflationary pressures, unbalanced world trade, a predatory financial industry, and declining personal incomes and the accompanying debt deflation. The impending retirement boom is overhanging in the face of poor fixed income prospects.
This time around, Keynes is leading the charge, supported by loose monetary policy. I think the chart needs at least one data point from the pre-war period.
Posted by:
Dan |
July 28, 2009 at 07:04 AM
At some point, I will have to stop being surprised by economists who think the current recession should resemble earlier recessions just because they are all called recessions.
Cripes. A recession is a name for a few broad symptoms. If you want to diagnose the disease, you need to look at all the symptoms and consider the patient's history.
If I encountered a doctor who gave the same diagnosis to all patients experiencing nausea and fever, I'd expect that the doctor would occasionally fail to catch a very severe condition. Likewise with economists who consider the recession label to be sufficient for diagnosis.
Posted by:
ottnott |
July 28, 2009 at 02:20 PM
ottnott,
If you stray away from the tiny bit of information about what economists think in the graph, and bother to read what they say, many think this recession will not be resolved like other recessions. The graph itself shows that Blue Chip contributors do not think this recession will be resolved in similar manner to other recessions. Even the biggest optimists among them think this one is unlike others. So I have to ask, whatever are you talking about? Where do you see evidence here, or in the writings of professional economists, that they simply take "recession" as all the information needed about the current period?
Posted by:
kharris |
July 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Kharris,
"This time its different", its what you hear every time from the so called economists whether it is to explain why the economy should do well despite the dark clouds on the horizont or other way around why the dark clouds are here to stay despite first rays of light making thier way through the darkness.
The Deflation is caused by last years run up in comodity prices. Remeber, there is no deflation in a fiat system. Punishing the savers might not be fair but this the price we pay to avoid deflationary spiral like 1929-33.
Posted by:
Buddy Aces |
July 30, 2009 at 06:57 AM
July 23, 2009
Unemployment rate: Count me surprised
Brad DeLong has taken a look at the job market and is counting himself among the economists who admit that, "Well, I just got it wrong." According to DeLong:
"… the rise in the unemployment rate during a recession should be a fraction of the decline we see in GDP relative to trend. According to Okun's Law, the unexpected extra 1.2 percent decline in real GDP in 2009 should have been accompanied by a 0.5 or 0.6 percentage-point rise in the unemployment rate. Instead, we experienced a 1.5 percentage point rise in the unemployment rate. I confess this comes as a surprise to me, but it shouldn't. Because evidence has been mounting that Okun's Law is broken—especially with regard to the retention of workers in a downturn."
I share Professor DeLong's surprise at the unemployment rate's response to this recession. Though I have never had a lot of faith in Okun's Law as a predictive device, I believe DeLong may be just a little too harsh on himself (and by extension, I guess, me) for not hitting the mark on unemployment prognostications. From what we know at the moment, the unemployment/GDP correlation is going to deviate from any other postwar experience by a fair margin. As noted in today's Wall Street Journal:
"Breaking from historical patterns, the unemployment rate—currently at 9.5%— is one to 1.5 percentage points higher than would be expected under one economic rule of thumb, says Lawrence Summers, President Barack Obama's top economic adviser. Since the recession began in December 2007, the economy has lost 6.5 million jobs, 4.7% of total employment. The unemployment rate has jumped five percentage points, while the economy has contracted by roughly 2.5%."
Below is a chart that illustrates the point. It plots the peak change in the unemployment rate during recessions (which has always been the unemployment rate change from the beginning to the end of the end of the recession) against the cumulative percent loss in GDP in those recessions. (In the chart, the blue dots represent the experience in each postwar recession. The red square represents the current downturn, making the assumption that GDP growth in the second quarter will be –0.5 percent and the recession will end sometime in the third quarter. For the sake of the exercise, I pulled these figures from Macroeconomic Advisers, the forecasting group run by former Federal Reserve Gov. Larry Meyer.)
The line in the graph above represent the simple statistical estimate of the relationship between changes in the unemployment rate and the cumulative GDP loss during each recession. Using this estimated Okun's Law, you would have guessed that the unemployment rate would have risen by about 2 percentage points. In other words, the best guess for the unemployment rate would be in the neighborhood of 7 percent, not 9.5 percent.
There are a couple of caveats to this analysis, of course. One is that, as is often noted, unemployment is a lagging indicator, so the peak in the unemployment rate can come after the recession ends. This caveat changes the picture somewhat (and misaligns the unemployment and GDP data), but not by a lot.
The second caveat is that there may eventually be revisions to GDP that make the recession look deeper than it appears at the moment, which would move the current episode closer to historic norms. On the other hand, the charts above assume that the unemployment rate will peak at 9.5 percent, which is not a certainty at the moment. (The "central tendency" projections published by the Federal Open Market Committee suggest that the rate will peak in the 9.9 to 10 percent range.)
Setting aside the possibility of any substantial revision in the data, perhaps one of the questions in the end will be whether the National Bureau of Economic Research Business Cycle Dating Committee was somewhat overaggressive in choosing December 2007 as the beginning of the recession. Though currently measured GDP growth was negative (barely) in the fourth quarter of 2007, GDP did not turn persistently negative until the third quarter of 2008. If we were to assume that the business cycle peak was actually in the second quarter of 2008, the picture would look like this:
With this alternative timing for the recession, the Okun's Law miss on the unemployment rate projection would have still been to the downside, but the error is quite a bit less dramatic than you get with the official recession dating.
In any event, I'm quite sympathetic to DeLong's theme that the dynamics of U.S. labor markets coming out of recessions appear to have changed starting with the 1990–91 economic contraction. And it might be hard for many people to argue with DeLong's point that the U.S. economy is likely headed toward another so-called "jobless recovery." But until more facts are in and we're able to look back on what transpired, I think we still, at this point, must reasonably count the current run-up in the unemployment rate as a puzzle.
Update: Casey Mulligan (University of Chicago) writes:
There are a host of public policies that discourage the earning of income, and do so more than they did before the recession. IMO, theat's why Okun's law is broken.
By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed
July 23, 2009 in Business Cycles, Data Releases, Labor Markets | Permalink
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But even when the economy was growing and times were good, business was laying people off left and right. Places like IBM and others would shutdown 5k worth of 'skilled' labor almost overnight.
It seems like steady destruction is the name of the game for many people in this new service economy.
Posted by:
Former SS Resident |
July 23, 2009 at 07:22 PM
Could simply mean that in the future there will be big downward revisions of gdp data...
Posted by:
Daniil |
July 24, 2009 at 01:54 AM
Of course you are surprised. Economists have been cheering the sending of American jobs overseas for a couple of decades now. It was supposed to make things better, for the Chinese and other poor folks. It also made Americans poor and unemployed. Oops.
America: no functioning job market, health care market, or education system. America: too corrupt to fix serious problem. America: the fattest 'no-can-do' country in the world.
Posted by:
lark |
July 24, 2009 at 02:52 AM
In each of the graphs, we can find at least one earlier recession - 1980 - in which the dot is as far from the regression line as in this case. In one graph, there appear to be 2 misses the size of the one we are working on now, with 1990 tossed in with 1980. In those cases, the jobless rate rose too little rather than too much, but it does give the impression that the fit isn't as tight as we are asking it to be. If we insist on one direction - the jobless rate too high - then we have a unique case on our hands. If we allow for the jobless rate being too high or too low, then we simply have one of the more extreme cases.
Posted by:
kharris |
July 24, 2009 at 08:54 AM
Another "DUH" moment!
Most GDP growth is going to the top spectrum of the economic ladder. That is why a jobless recovery...
Posted by:
dr |
July 24, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Mulligan is right that there is a disincentive to make earned income relative to investment income. His suggestion that this is new within the time period in question, is dubious, however.
Marginal tax rates on earned income were much higher prior to the reforms in 1986, and there were still ample incentives for investment income (particularly capital gains) relative to earned income at that time. The tax rates themselves also understate that preference because there were, believe it or not, far more loopholes (like passive loss tax shelters) available then than there were immediately following the reform. Estate tax rates have changes a lot during the relative time period as well, but are quite neutral between earned income and unearned income.
While the preference for unearned income increased during the George W. Bush Administration (i.e. after the 1990 and 2001 downturns and before the current one), with reduced rates on dividends from C corporations, reductions in top capital gains tax rates, increased importance for stock options and carried interest arrangements, etc. This isn't the whole story.
The portion of the population that is in the income taxed part of the workforce has greatly decreased, and the overall economic impact of income taxes on the working class and middle class has declined dramatically, starting with the reforms of 1986 and continuing since then. This sentiment is reflected in greatly reduced priority for the issue of lowering taxes in opinion polls.
Unemployment, historically, had a far disporportionate impact on members of these social classes. Less educated and less skilled and less experienced members of the workforce are usually hit the hardest, by a large margin, by unemployment. Yet, these are the people most indifferent to the earned-unearned income disparity. The only place where income taxes create much of an incentive is right on the threshold of the line between poor and working class, where the phase out of the earned income tax credit, FICA taxation, and the phase out of eligibility for government benefits like Medicaid, Free/Reduced School Lunch, rent assistance, heating assistance and a host of other programs conspire to reduce a whole host of government tax and non-tax benefits with the highest marginal tax rate of any group. Just above that phaseout range, one hits a point of near zero average taxation, near zero government means tested benefits fairly low marginal taxation rates of earnings by historical standards, and abundant opportuntities to use contribution limited tax preferenced vehicles like IRAs, education savings accounts, HSAs, residential real estate tax preferences, etc. to gain tax benefits that favor investment income, a trend that continues all the way up the line in ever evolving forms.
One plausible alternative explanation is that a lot of the economically important GDP growth before the financial crisis hit, and hence a lot of economically important GDP decline afterwards, never made it onto the GDP books. What is missing from the GDP books is unrealized perceived gains and declines in asset value. The consumption growth we saw during the preceding boom was driven by wealth effects from "on paper" appreciation in financial and real estate assets that was only partially monitized with debt driven spending and cash out transactions. People thought that this wealth was real anyway -- real estate appraisals were often underestimates of real market prices just months after they were made, and financial valuation data was available in real time on the Internet or CNN and could be converted to cash at a moment's notice (or at most, a few day's notice).
If you were to look at decline in apparent GDP, including estimates of housing stock valuation and financial market valuation that weren't reflected in actual transactions at those prices, I think that you would see that the GDP decline in this recession has been deeper than GDP declines in previous recessions, relative to the conventional GDP number.
Employer decisions to lay off workers in this recession have frequently been driven by a desire to control costs due to weak expectations for future growth (something that also explains the rising share in this financial crisis of the ranks of the involuntary part-time work force which can be shed "just in time," with hour reductions, more easily). For employers making these forward looking decisions, who are the group most likely to have experienced on paper wealth losses in the financial crisis, perceptions of economic decline are more important than actual economic decline. So, if paper losses make GDP decline seem much greater than it actually is (the losses too are often unrealized due to the discipline of financial planners who tell people to stay in the market so they don't miss the boom that follows), employers are likely to reduce their workforces and unemployment is likely to be greater.
Just a heuristic explanation, but a more plausible one than the earned-unearned income distinction (particulalry because the pre-tax return on unearned income is very low and the impact of low pre-tax returns swamps any tax preferences).
Posted by:
ohwilleke |
July 24, 2009 at 03:15 PM
Just as a quick footnote, I confirmed that GDP definitions do expressly and intentionally exclude unrealized capital gains in the secondary financial and housing markets (i.e. sales involving non-IPO financial instruments and sales of homes to someone other than their first owner). These sectors of the economy were, of course, precisely the sectors of the economy that bubbled and then collapsed in the current financial crisis; this off the GDP books action is at the core of what was going on this time.
GDP impacts that have flowed from these off this off the GDP books events have essentially a mere shadow of the driving events in the current economy, so it is not surprising that GDP measures don't work very well to show their true impact.
The distinction between the "real economy" and the "financial/secondary market" economy inherent in the very definition of GDP has never been more relevant than in the 2001-current recession boom. Financial sector firms reaped the lion's share of the economic growth in this boom, and the senior manager-production worker gap in compensatioon was eclipsed by a gap in financial industry senior manager v. real economy senior managers. Not one but two waves of secondary market collapses -- first in the secondary housing market and then in the secondary financial market, preceded the demand driven real economy effects.
Posted by:
ohwilleke |
July 24, 2009 at 03:37 PM
Personally, I think the IMF unemployment and GDP forecasts are the only ones worth reading. They've been pretty good in their last reports.
Is there any way to see what they use for projections?
Posted by:
Dave |
July 25, 2009 at 11:17 AM
okun's law does not take into account changes in tech, changes in financial management from longer to shorter time (don't need employees related to future products), nor outsourcing.
Nor does it deal with what requires a more narrative approach, the increased concentration of wealth and what rich people are likely to do with it (buying land in Chile, for example.) Math alone is not a good predictor in economics. A good reporter i also necessary.
Posted by:
Doug Carmichael |
July 26, 2009 at 03:38 PM
The comment by SS Resident is correct that even in the good times that companies would think nothing of trimming several hundred in headcount at a time in the pursuit of "efficiency" or "core competency."
The thing most puzzling to me is that considering the jobless recovery from the last recession that can be seen in the low participation rate for that time, that there are/were so many jobs left to cut to boost the unemployment rate that much further. This is particularly true in light of the methods used to calculate U3 as opposed to U6.
The questions about GDP and future revisions remain to be seen. I would also question the importance of credit and leverage in the period between the last and this recession and their effects on GDP.
Posted by:
Mr.Sparkle |
July 26, 2009 at 05:11 PM
Another issue is that there's an historic trend in "inactive" people in the USA which is making comparison of unemployment rate difficult, see this graph made with BLS data 1948-2008:
http://fatknowledge.blogspot.com/2009/01/misleading-nature-of-unemployment.html
Are the inactive taken into account in those models and rules?
Thanks in advance,
Laurent
Posted by:
Laurent GUERBY |
July 27, 2009 at 03:26 AM
*looking at revised gdp data*
I told you so!
Posted by:
Daniil |
August 01, 2009 at 01:38 AM
July 17, 2009
When cycles collide
Yesterday we saw that initial claims for unemployment insurance declined rather sharply again last week, another hint that U.S. labor markets may be beginning to mend. But the improvement came with a word of caution from the folks at the Department of Labor, who note that these numbers are being affected by seasonal adjustments to the data that may present a misleading picture.
Virtually all of the economic information that gets reported by the data agencies has been seasonally adjusted. That is, the data are being reported after the agency has adjusted them for their usual variation for that time of year. The unemployment insurance claims data are a useful example. On an unadjusted basis, the initial claims data showed a fairly large increase last week—up 86,000 workers. But claims for unemployment compensation typically rise in early July as auto plants shut down to retool for the new model year. The jump in claims this July hasn't been as large as in years past since many of the auto plants were waylaid earlier in the year. So on a "seasonally adjusted" basis, the data showed a drop in claims of 47,000 workers.
Here we have that statistician's equivalent of an old existential puzzle: Do seasonal layoffs in the auto industry make a sound if there is no one there to lay off? We invite you to write up your own answer to that one. There is a long literature, perhaps most notably the work of Jeffrey Miron, that documents the interplay between the business cycle and the seasonal cycle. The thrust of this research is to help us better understand the general nature of economic cycles. But there are also more mundane issues we need to wrestle with. For instance, how accurate are seasonal adjustments to the data during times of severe cyclical disruption?
To provide some perspective, let's take a deeper look at the recently released June consumer price index (CPI) report. Last month, prices, as measured by the core CPI, were up 2.4 percent (annualized) from a 1.7 percent rise in May. There are a few bits of data that might cause you to scratch your head a little, given what we've been hearing about the economy lately. For instance, apparel prices jumped an annualized 8.8 percent last month. And new car prices were up 8.2 percent. So are department stores and car dealers having a better time of it than they are letting on? I don't think so. I believe the seasonal adjustments in the data offer a more reasonable explanation.
Apparel prices rose 8.8 percent on a seasonally adjusted basis but fell a whopping 25.5 percent (annualized) on an unadjusted basis. And new car prices? Well, they rose on an unadjusted basis, but not nearly as much as the seasonally adjusted data indicated (5.1 percent versus 8.2 percent). Indeed, this pattern seems to be consistent across many of the core components of the CPI in June. On a seasonally adjusted basis, the core inflation measure rose 2.4 percent. But on an unadjusted basis, the core CPI was largely unchanged for the second month in a row (up a slight 0.9 percent, annualized).
Here's a conjecture on my part. Many of the price declines that ordinarily occur in June didn't occur this year. Why? Perhaps it's because the sharp decline in business activity has resulted in such severe production and price cuts already that usual seasonal price discounts have been disrupted. In other words, in the current economic environment, there may not be much "season" to adjust for.
This isn't a criticism of seasonal adjustment. In fact, seasonal adjustment is an entirely appropriate—and necessary—transformation of the data if you are trying to see emerging trends. But it's certainly important to exercise caution when interpreting seasonally adjusted data during a period of strong cyclical movements. If the business cycle alters the usual behavior of the seasonal cycle in the data, seasonal adjustment could produce a misleading snapshot of the data. And I suspect we saw a bit of that in the June CPI report.
In closing, I want to put in a plug that the second weekly postings of the Atlanta Fed's Economic Highlights and Financial Highlights are now available on the Bank's Web site. These summaries of national economic and financial statistics complement our monthly REIN reports on the Southeastern economy.
By Mike Bryan, vice president and senior economist in the Atlanta Fed's research department
July 17, 2009 in Business Cycles, Data Releases, Inflation, Labor Markets | Permalink
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In a low inflation era firms tend to raise prices once a year-- typically at the start of the year or season.
This produces a very strong seasonal pattern to the not seasonally adjusted (NSA)core cpi.
Some 55% of the annual increase in the NSA core cpi occurs in the first quarter and another 25% happens in the third quarter.
The third quarter consist largely of home owners rent, tuition and autos.
Moreover, if the first quarter nsa core cpi is less than( or greater than) in the first quarter of the prior year that the annual change is generally less( or greater) than in the prior year.
This rule has worked in 15 or the last 16 years.
Posted by:
spencer |
July 17, 2009 at 02:07 PM
It's called seasonally mal-adjusted. One should alwasy ignore seasonal figures. These flucuations originate from the FED's mandate to "SUPPLY AN ELASTIC CURRENCY". I.e., the FED's technical staff follows the fallacious "real bills" doctrine.
Posted by:
flow5 |
July 18, 2009 at 02:10 PM
Contrary to the economic fraternity monetary lags are uniformly fixed in length. The statistical analysis of these crests and troughs are not random. The rates-of-change in these monetary lags (for real-growth, & for inflation), literally oscillate (along the Y axis), between their maximum and minimum levels (as demonstrates by the clustering on a scatter plot diagram).
These oscillations do however suffer from errant data. Errant data may originate from faulty theoretical interpretations, flaws in the data’s definition, and errors in the computation, collection, and reporting of data.
It is instructive that the FED has never cooperated by supplying continuous, comparable, and timely data. Supporting data is required for the proper investigation, the subsequent proof, and ending conclusion, for any economic research (“History is full of bad jokes”).
Posted by:
flow5 |
July 18, 2009 at 02:11 PM
This article suggests that seasonal adjusted data can lead to misleading snapshots of the economy. The reason is that in estimating the seasonals, the data producers have not taken into account of lower seasonals due to lower trend or trendbreak. In other words, the key assumption is that the seasonals are more or less constant.
However, this key assumption of near-constant seasonal may not be true.
First, DOL or BLS may be using X12-ARIMA (a seasonal procedure) that allows adjustment for sudden trendbreak. Seasonals will change if trendbreaks are adjusted in the seasonals estimation process.
Second, if multiplicative (or log) model is used to estimate the seasonals, lower trend will lead to lower seasonals.
The seasonal-adjusted data may not be much misleading if possible trendbreaks are adjusted for and multiplicative models are used.
Suggest that Alanta Fed check with the DOL or BLS, and see if they agree with your post. It's better to get views from both parties, the data users and the data producers.
Posted by:
low |
July 28, 2009 at 10:03 PM
April 24, 2009
Is the investment trend in the current recession “run of the mill”?
In the last macroblog post, David Altig examined personal consumption expenditures during recessionary periods. Reader Dave Backus, the Heinz Riehl Professor of International Economics and Finance at New York University's Stern School of Business, sent us a follow-up email asking about other components of gross domestic product, and investment in particular. Good question, so let's take a look at investment during the current and past recessions.
Earlier this year, the University of Chicago's Casey Mulligan, writing in the New York Times' Economix blog, examined real investment trends for the past four recessions and called the current investment trend in this recession "run of the mill." Employing the same basic idea from our previous macroblog post, below is a chart showing the percentage change from the first quarter to the trough of the last eight recessions, along with the percentage change from the current recession's first quarter to the first quarter of this year.
Prof. Mulligan's point emerges pretty clearly. Matched up against previous recessions, there is nothing spectacularly unusual about the declines in overall investment expenditure—not yet, at any rate. But that picture may be a bit deceiving. Here's the same sort of graph for fixed investment—that is, all investment expenditures other than changes in inventories.
The current recession—which is not yet over as far as we know—does not stack up so favorably when it comes to fixed investment spending. In fact it leads the pack in terms of investment decline among the eight recessions since 1960. This fact is not too surprising given the the relative impact of residential private investment in the current recession. This impact can be seen by comparing gross domestic private investment with gross domestic private investment excluding residential private investment. In all previous recessions apart from 1990, the percentage change in gross domestic private investment excluding residential private investment significantly exceeds the drop in gross private investment, and in the 1990 recession they were roughly comparable. In the current recession, gross domestic private investment excluding residential investment is significantly less than the gross domestic private investment.
In addition to that difference, the comparison of gross investment patterns is significantly affected by the behavior of inventory changes across recessions. The modest decline in overall inventories in the current downturn is the reason for the relatively benign view of investment highlighted in Casey Mulligan's Economix piece.
So, let's consider again whether the current investment trend in this recession is "run of the mill." Perhaps at first glance it is, but when we break down the components of gross domestic private investment, these charts inform us that the relative declines in the various components of gross domestic private investment are quite different in this recession. And just how benign that picture is depends, in part, on whether the slow pace of inventory decumulation thus far proves a lasting feature of this recession. On that, we will just have to wait and see.
By Courtney Nosal, economic research analyst at the Atlanta Fed
April 24, 2009 in Business Cycles, Data Releases | Permalink
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How much of the change in behavior of inventories can be attributed to 'just in time' efficiencies in inventory management that have caused the overall size of inventories to shrink?
My ad hoc analysis is that business investment has been depressed since the dotcom bust, so the decline for this current downturn is not from a robust base and so may not be comparable to previous recessions.
Posted by:
don |
April 24, 2009 at 04:29 PM
Can you add the chart for nonresidential fixed investments?
This is the category many think of when you are discussing investment.
Posted by:
spencer |
April 24, 2009 at 05:27 PM
Could you add a chart of non-residential fixed investment to the article.
That is what most people think of when you discuss investments.
Posted by:
spencer |
April 25, 2009 at 07:53 AM
If you look at the change in the capital stock this recession is also very different and much worse. In 2009 we will have the capital stock declining for the first time since the 1930s. That is in part because the net investment rate did not get very high during the expansion--despite all of the investment friendly tax cuts (partial expensing reduced rates on capital gains and dividends.
Posted by:
rana |
April 25, 2009 at 01:45 PM
Not only was investment's decline from a low base, a larger than usual share of the investment that comprised that low base was in commercial real estate rather than in manufacturing or natural resource development. What investment was directed to manufacturing by domestic corporations in recent years was disproportionately directed overseas. These circumstances augur poorly for domestic employment recovery.
Posted by:
mrrunangun |
April 25, 2009 at 02:03 PM
Just wanted to say HI. I found your blog a few days ago and have been reading it over the past few days.
Posted by:
runescape money |
April 27, 2009 at 02:08 AM
April 17, 2009
Abnormal consumer spending—not quite
I was struck by this headline which led a Tuesday post in Economix, the economics blog of the New York Times—"Consumer Spending Declines: A Historical Oddity."
Sometimes these sorts of teasers are not great indicators of a more nuanced analysis that follows, but in this case the headline synopsis pretty well captured the plot.
"That the American consumer is cutting back spending is blindingly obvious these days, but it is still hard to overemphasize this central feature of the current recession. Americans borrowed like crazy for years against their home values, which have now fallen and are dragging consumption down with them.
"The sustained decline in consumer spending is also—as the European Central Bank points out in a tight piece of work synthesizing features of past recessions—a historical oddity of the first order."
That analysis is not, I think, quite so tight. Here's a chart that measures the cumulative percent change in real personal consumption expenditures from the beginning of each U.S. recession since 1960 to the lowest point of those expenditures over the recession's course:
The first very obvious feature of this picture is that there is nothing like a typical recession pattern when it comes to consumer spending. The second obvious feature is that the fall in household consumption in the current downturn looks entirely unremarkable when stacked up against past episodes.
For those of you still reading, it would be fair of you to remind me that the current recession is not over, so the record is yet incomplete. Though personal consumption expenditures actually increased in January and February, the most recent retail sales report might warrant caution. In fact, Economix has followed up with a cross-recession comparison of retail sales that definitely puts the current recession in a relatively bad light. That's fine, though I would note that retail sales are only a piece of overall personal consumption expenditures, a piece that does not really capture the increasing share of spending on services that has occurred over the postwar period.
But even if the turnaround in overall consumer spending proves durable, it is not entirely clear that there is much solace to be taken from such a development. If you are inclined to look to the darker side of things, the fact is that a turnaround in consumption generally comes well before a recession ends. In the long and relatively severe recessions of 1973–75 and 1981–82, consumer spending bottomed out a full year before the economy turned around in general. (The bottom was eight months before the end of the recession in the 1969–70 and 2001 recessions and two months before the end in the 1960–61, 1980, and 1990–91 recessions.)
For lots of reasons, then, I wouldn't want to overweight good (or even benign) news from the consumer spending front. But historical oddity? I don't believe so—yet.
By David Altig, senior vice president and research director at the Atlanta Fed
April 17, 2009 in Business Cycles, Data Releases | Permalink
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David, that graph of real PCE changes is definitely interesting.
I can think of two factors that might make comparisons more complex.
First, how acute were the falls and recoveries? If real PCE falls 3% over four months and then recovers in four months, it would be a much different effect from having it fall 2% over a year and then staying down another year.
Second, does adjusting for inflation using the CPI distort anything? I've been thinking of this lately in regards to the inflation/deflation debate. For instance, in this recession, a huge part of the fall in PCE is from vehicle sales. But they make up a much smaller part of the CPI, and their prices might have gone in the opposite direction.
The most frequent problem with using the CPI to adjust to real figures is that it only measures consumer price inflation. But not wages. So adjusting home prices with the CPI seems a little off to me. If wages are flat and commodities spike, home prices will appear "flat" if they rise with the elevated CPI.
I know that adjusting for inflation is necessary, but I think using a particular measure it must inevitably muddy things in other ways.
Posted by:
Bob_in_MA |
April 18, 2009 at 09:46 AM


Economists got it wrong because there's not one who understands the difference between a positive and a negative feedback loop.